M or M ?

fatbloke · 27 Aug 2000, 15:22 (Ref:33103)

OK, sadly for DC, I have to say it looks as if it's all over for his title hopes

Who do you think will triumph out of MS/MH and take their third crown ?

Minardi fan · 27 Aug 2000, 15:24 (Ref:33105)

Mika Mika Mika Mika Mika.

And stop posting so many new threads!

R · 27 Aug 2000, 15:26 (Ref:33109)

M. Definitely M.

No, honestly, I believe Mika will take his third WDC this season.

marcus · 27 Aug 2000, 15:30 (Ref:33113)

Mika looked bloody good today ..but i will reserve my judgement until after monza..but for now i will go with Mika.

Ralf's Girl · 27 Aug 2000, 16:48 (Ref:33161)

For the moment I say Mika. But it's not over till it's over.

One thing's for sure:

His name will begin with the letters MI.

Danielsun · 27 Aug 2000, 19:18 (Ref:33192)

...CHAEL ANDRETTI!! Crash alert!!

Seriously, it looks at this stage as though Mika will do the Big Three. Would that make him the greatest ever, seeing as he beat Schumacher to do it?

fastracer · 27 Aug 2000, 19:42 (Ref:33207)

Even though I'm sad to admit it, but i think Mika will win it because the next races, except for Malaysia, are all McLaren tracks and we saw today how much of an advantage the McLarens have over the Ferraris on a dry track.

R · 27 Aug 2000, 19:44 (Ref:33208)

Well, maybe not the greatest ever, but it would surely make it difficult for TGF to maintain his status of regarded-by-most-as-the-best-driver-in-the-world that he has had for such a long time now. I mean, if Mika wins this year again, how can anyone say that a driver that is a REIGNING TRIPLE WORLD CHAMPION is NOT the best driver currently in the field?

Rated R · 27 Aug 2000, 19:59 (Ref:33215)

Well Hakkinen definitely has the advantage now. There is still a chance for Schu to salvage the season, very slim though. He absolutely needs to win Monza. If he doesn't (and Hak wins), then that'll be it...
I'm trying to put myself in the man's shoes-four years in a row, every time the title slips away-it must be frustrating. And now Hak has the prospects of becoming 3 times WDC in a row. That must hurt...

Ralf's Girl · 27 Aug 2000, 20:52 (Ref:33230)

I have to say that there has been the most ENORMOUS amount of luck involved in Hakkinen's two titles. Compare his record with TGF's. A bit different, aren't they? Hakkinen would be nowhere now without that car, which makes me feel sad, because when I think about it, I have to take something away from what he has achieved. I don't like to do that, but it's got to be done.

I would not, no matter whether he wins or not this year, put Hakkinen in the same class of driver as TGF. He has won fourteen races to take two titles. Not impressive at all (or not to me, anyway). TGF has won at least forty. Sure, it will be hard for TGF to retain that status, but I think if you look at it, he is still the best in the field. No matter how much I dislike him, I'd be stupid not to see it. And I pride myself on a distinct lack of stupidity.

Mr.S · 27 Aug 2000, 20:54 (Ref:33231)

It must be especially bad because of the three straight wins at the beginning. Well any way these things seem to be scripted, shuey's got the next race.

Gerard · 27 Aug 2000, 21:54 (Ref:33258)

Since most of you are saying it will be Mika, I say it will be Michael.
Because when Schumacher does win this year's championship I can say: 'I told you so!'

**Bononi** · 27 Aug 2000, 22:21 (Ref:33271)

I will repeat the words of a famous fortuneteller :
"Mika will win, if he doesn't so Michael will win !"

fatbloke · 27 Aug 2000, 22:29 (Ref:33275)

Quote:

I have to say that there has been the most ENORMOUS amount of luck involved in Hakkinen's two titles. Compare his record with TGF's. A bit different, aren't they?

Wise words from one so young. Yes indeed there is a marked difference between the two - Mika never delibaretly punted off his chief rival at the last race of the season, for example...

Sharky · 27 Aug 2000, 22:54 (Ref:33281)

If he keeps driving like that Mika will be the champion again.....however....I heard somewhere that he could still retire if he wins the championship again.....a rumor of course.

**Bononi** · 27 Aug 2000, 23:02 (Ref:33283)

Altough I might say it has nothing to do with the present... Fatbloke is right. I never swallow that 1st championship, but anyway he's got it.
As long as I know, Cranky Mika is a clean driver...

Liz · 27 Aug 2000, 23:31 (Ref:33292)

I have to agree with those who say that the Cranky One's run of luck has more to do with both the strength of the McLaren and the weakness of the field than with anything he himself has done.

I am not saying that I can drive better than he can, mind you: I just think that if you put CM in the Ferrari and TGF in the McLaren, then TGF would be the three time world champion or maybe even more.

HOWEVER, I put the 1994 title TGF won in the same class - too weak a field after Senna was killed and Prost retired; and of course he stole the 1995 title.

Prost is the greatest pilot of modern times and TGF will never be in his league. Prost was an honorable man.

Valve Bounce · 28 Aug 2000, 00:31 (Ref:33296)

I'll run with Fatbloke. Mika drove an incredible race last night (my time), he was faster in the wet, he made a mistake and let TGF through, he recovered and although TGF was faster initially (because of a low fuel load at the time it turned out), Mika never gave up and clawed his way back, tried manfully to pass, then passed with an "incredible" manouevre. ONLY for certain persons to suggest it was the car. Sure he would be nowhere without that car. What did we expect him to do ?? RUN???
It is a fact that Mika will never be recognised for his ability. No matter what he does, there will be detractors who will say "it was his car, the other guy had a bum car (even though Ferrari had an unlimited budget), he had a better designer in Adrian, he even had Ron nagging at him, Haug rubbing his wife's behind, etc, etc". You name the advantage, he had it.
Well, I don't really care, because I don't have to convince anyone. In my mind, Mika is just as good as TGF, and he is the better man. I enjoy seeing him win, and I enjoy seeing TGF lose. What more can anyone ask??

Rated R · 28 Aug 2000, 00:39 (Ref:33297)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
I enjoy seeing him win, and I enjoy seeing TGF lose. What more can anyone ask??

I guess you are not a very joyful person then-with Mika's 15 or so wins and Schu's 40...

Valve Bounce · 28 Aug 2000, 03:57 (Ref:33308)

Let me explain, Rated R. I used to love watching TGF qualify, because he was unbelievable going over curbs, sideways around corners, and it was a joy to watch.
Watching him race was mundane in comparison to his qualifying efforts, although I also enjoyed his driving in the races. Then came Jerez, and after that I just could not cheer for the guy or want him to win. Since Jerez, I enjoyed it when he lost. That's the reason. So, if you count the number of wins TGF had since Jerez, that was how many times I have been frustrated. However, last night was most enjoyable, the way Mika went past him. I enjoyed that!!!

Mr.S · 28 Aug 2000, 05:43 (Ref:33314)

I'm with VB on this one. Mika has not had a super competitive car his entire career. He didn't walk into that McLaren Mercedes, he spent a lot of time in an uncompetitive car, one that he almost died in. Now that he is in a competitive car he is winning WDC's, what ells matters? How can any one say he is lucky to win two WDC's. If any thing you should say he was unlucky, more wins would have come if not for the mechanical failures. Remember that Mika has only had a good car for three years; Michael has had one for well over that number, except of course in 96. If you will notice JV would have won two WDC's if he had won the last race in 96, he would have had the same number of wins as Mika. Shuey is faster but not by much.

I also loved the pass!

R · 28 Aug 2000, 16:34 (Ref:33420)

Mr.S, I could have quoted your entire post. I agree completely.

Flabby · 28 Aug 2000, 21:46 (Ref:33479)

I'll throw in my two cents here. I agree that TGF's first WDC was a farce (everybody conveniently forgets that he spun on his own in front of Hill while leading) and since Jerez and I have rooted against him. I also think that Mika was handed his first WDC. It has always bothered me that when McLaren had its lean years, DC still found a way to win when Mika didn't and Ron Dennis can't seem to find a way to reward that. And I think the '99 WDC fell into MH's hands.

But this year, he has been electrifying these last four races. And he definitely deserves it if he gets. And I think that Schumi has to be re-evaluated if he doesn't win this year. All that **** about the McLaren being better has to be evaluated with these two facts: A) Michael had the lead in the championship and lost it this year on his own with a very competetive car, and B) that Ferrari has been so good these last three years that for pete's sake, Eddie Irvine won races in it!

And let's be honest, how many WDC's have been in won in a car that wasn't the best in the field? It's just part of the mix that makes a chmapionship. McLaren was the class of the field in the 80's, does that make Senna or Prost's WDCs any less deserving or interesting? Remember, hindsight makes everything mroe interesting. How deep was the field, really, in the late 80s? There was Senna, Prost and Mansell. The rest were fillers. Just like today. There's MS, MH and DC. The only difference is that today, we know them by their initials.

jb · 28 Aug 2000, 22:24 (Ref:33490)

well there's still plenty of time for some FIA hijinks with rules and specifications like last year

Roy2 · 28 Aug 2000, 23:35 (Ref:33519)

I wonder how useful it is to compare one winning driver unfavorably to another, and to say that this driver doesn't deserve his wins or his championships, and this other driver is more deserving.
Hakkinen stayed loyal to McLaren when they couldn't field a front line car, and while it cost him from '94 to '97, his loyalty paid off big time.
Schumacher went for the money and challenge of Ferrari, has done wonders from '96 to date with the material supplied, but has paid the price by usually getting cars just a tick behind the dominant Williams and McLarens.

The two drivers made their choices and are reaping their respective rewards.

What is worth focusing on, IMO, is the racing. What a race, with Hakkinen leading, spinning, Schumacher leading and pulling away, then Hakkinen reeling him back in. And what a pass! It's been a long time since I've seen such racing suspense, with (just the reverse of the qualifying scenario), Hakkinen faster through section one, Schumacher faster, I think, through section two. Could MH get close enough by the end of lap, could he be fast enough thru Eau Rouge, could he pass before the end of the straight???!!!
Both drivers did themselves proud, with Michael resisting and Mikka attacking, to the limit.

We've waited for this for a long time, and I can't see quibbling over which driver is superior or more deserving, not when between them they gift us with a race like Spa 2000.