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30 Dec 2003, 23:30 (Ref:824023) | #1 | ||
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What makes a good driver pairing?
A number of the current threads have me thinking about what makes a good driver pairing in a team. There seems to be a number of philosophies out there. Some teams like Ferrari have the star paired with a clear number two, even though I think Rubens is a fine talent. But then Williams have a rather strong pairing with Ralf and Monty. Mclaren will have a similar setup with Monty and Kimi in 2005. Do teams with two strong drivers lose points due to the two fighting it out? Or does it give them an edge in the constructor's championship? I know there have been some very strong teams in the past as well, i.e. Senna and Prost. Other teams (due to choice or necessity) have two young bucks. And others pair a young up and comer with a veteran. Williams in 1996 comes to mind as one example of that. In fact, Williams will be facing this question in 2005 wont they?
A simple question to you all. Out of these scenarios, which do you feel is the best? Any ideas? Last edited by jhansen; 30 Dec 2003 at 23:30. |
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31 Dec 2003, 00:29 (Ref:824094) | #2 | ||
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The ultimate were 2 outright #1's... like Prost and Senna, who were at the top of their game, and pushing the team and themselves as hard as they possibly could. An expensive way to do things, but the team never wondered whether the cars could go any quicker with someone else in the seat.
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31 Dec 2003, 01:47 (Ref:824131) | #3 | ||
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Senna/Prost were a definite force but they also were their only competition.I think it really depends on the quality of competition that your team faces. Ferrari have benefited from having a clear No.1 which has helped them to the championships, although in '02 it clearly wasn't neccessary. By contrast Williams this year I think had the superior car but failed to capitalise on it by not having a clear No1. Mclaren were able to actually take second in the WDC by the fact that although Raikkonen was not a clear No1 he made it so by clearly outdriving DC.
Having said that I would prefer to see team-mates battling it out on track, but if i were a team-principle I think the Ferrari example would be the right way. |
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31 Dec 2003, 02:16 (Ref:824143) | #4 | ||
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I believe a good driver pairing is about drivers who compliment each other. There is no point having two drivers exactly the same, such as Heidfeld/Frentzen for example, which basically just cancelled each other out.
A perfect driver lineup has two equally fast drivers, but who compliment each other in their technique. For example, Senna/Prost - Prost the consumate proffesional, Senna the outright speed demon. A bit of fireworks between the pair helps things too. atm, I'd say Ralf/JPM is perhaps the best lineup, even though their talent averaged out is perhaps no better than any other team pairing, they both fit into the template well. |
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Don't let manufacturers ruin F1. RIP Tyrrell, Arrows, Prost, Minardi, Jordan. |
31 Dec 2003, 03:13 (Ref:824176) | #5 | |
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Best of the current drivers to be paired up would be JPM and Webber.
I agree about the two #1s make for the best combos but they do need to have different styles to get to the same point which is the top step of the podium every weekend. The best combos in the past have been such as this- Senna/Prost, Mansell/Piquet are just two. |
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31 Dec 2003, 03:16 (Ref:824178) | #6 | ||
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Yes, JPM/Webber would be the best IMO.
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Don't let manufacturers ruin F1. RIP Tyrrell, Arrows, Prost, Minardi, Jordan. |
31 Dec 2003, 03:29 (Ref:824186) | #7 | ||
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Thats the whole point though isnt it, 2 totally different solutions to the same problem.. drivers with strong points and weak points... speed here and no speed there...
Its why McLaren kept getting better... Prost and Senna were so different in style they kept pushing the development envelope to the point where the cars got better thru the year |
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31 Dec 2003, 06:22 (Ref:824252) | #8 | ||
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I agree with DNQ that its good to have drivers that compliment each other.
And it's such a fine choice to make. Developing teams often opt for an experienced and proven driver being teamed with a potential young winner. So that while the former leads the team in developement and improving the quality of the car, the latter is groomed for the future. For example Toyota with Panis and da Matta. The outright poor teams would usually get a cheap (if not free or paid for) and fast driver with some experience with a young newcomer with loads of cash. While the latter provides cash for developement, the former is depended to get the results. Jordan springs to mind, also Minardi |
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Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
31 Dec 2003, 08:02 (Ref:824286) | #9 | ||
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I think of curent drivers WEBBER & Ralf or Webber with Button or Alonso would be the ideal lineup choice but one thing is for shore Webber is a top platform for any top team
Sorry had to do the quick plug |
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31 Dec 2003, 08:10 (Ref:824294) | #10 | ||
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Mark Webber seemed the most hardworking of the current lot of new comers, not saying that the others are lazy or playful, but it seems like Mark had tried and done pretty well in doing things MS-style, and it seemed to have worked.
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Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
31 Dec 2003, 08:11 (Ref:824297) | #11 | ||
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While on that point, don't blame Mark or MS or Alonso to have this strong inclination to be in a team built around them. While it is every driver's wish to be in a custom made fully supportive team, Flavio's boys were brought up in that environment as it is Flavio's own preference to have a star driver lead a team.
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Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
31 Dec 2003, 08:16 (Ref:824303) | #12 | ||
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Perhaps as an indicator as what is a good driver's pairing,
I would rank them as follow. VERY STRONG DRIVER PAIRING 1)Ferrari (very strong MS teamed with quality teammate) 2)Williams (equally matched/different style drivers) 3)Renault (fast Trulli with Alonso's huge potential) STRONG DRIVER PAIRING 1)Mclaren (let down by DC, Kimi brings huge potential) 2)BAR (Button/JV is strong, Button/Sato equally good) 3)Toyota (Panis to back the growth of da Matta's talent) AVERAGE DRIVER PAIRING 1)Jordan (Fisi is fast but not motivated,Firman nothing special. Replacement Nick not an improvement) 2)Jaguar (Mark Webber's brilliance hindered by teammate, but cash talks) 3)Sauber (HHF decent but past date, Nick lost shine. Fisi/Massa will be better) POOR DRIVER PAIRING 1)Minardi (what can Minardi achieve with their drivers?) Last edited by Gt_R; 31 Dec 2003 at 08:22. |
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Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to." |
31 Dec 2003, 11:58 (Ref:824480) | #13 | ||
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a good driver line up only needs 2 things. good drivers.
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speed delays my life. |
31 Dec 2003, 12:09 (Ref:824491) | #14 | ||
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2005 will see the best driver pairings in F1 for a while imo,
Hopefully it will be.... Michael, Fernando at Ferrari Kimi, JPM at McLaren Jenson, Mark at Williams (I live in hope ) |
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That's so frickin uncool man! |
31 Dec 2003, 12:15 (Ref:824494) | #15 | ||
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The Williams lineup worked really well, because at least one fo them was getting the best out of the car at every track. When the car was brilliant, such as France, Canada and Germany, both drivers were in contention to take the win.
When it was a little harder to drive, it was usually Montoya who had the edge at wrestling out results, although Ralf often picked up minor points through consistancy, such as in Malaysia and Spain. Ferrari had the problem in 2003 that, when the car wasn't fast enough in Michael's hands, it was usually even slower in Rubens', which impinged on their results (although ti clearly didn't ultimately cost them much). Overall different situations need different things. Maybe Ferrari could've done with a Ralf / Montoya style pairing, whereas Montoya could probably learn some stuff from DC, especially on the mental side - Ralf seems to be little help there. In rough order, I'd rate the driver pairings for 2003 - Williams, Ferrari, McLaren, BAR (Villeneuve and Sato roughtly equal, but Taku has more potential), Renault, Toyota, Jaguar (Wilson), Sauber (for the reasons noted by DNQ), Jordan and Minardi. |
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31 Dec 2003, 12:19 (Ref:824498) | #16 | |||
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Quote:
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That's so frickin uncool man! |
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