Is banning driver aids the answer..........

[ralf fan]

..... to interesting and exciting races??
in most threads everyone (including me!) has been going on about banning aids like TC. but will it really produce exciting races week after week?

[ASCII Man]

Not always, the Monaco GP for example will always be boring.

[BootsOntheSide]

The races would probably improve, for a few reasons. There would be more driving errors, which would mean more overtaking and closer racing.

As well as improving the races, it would increase the likelihood of the best drivers winning, and limit the disadvantage currently faced by the privateer teams. The effect might be strongest in difficult conditions.

On account of that, I find it wierd that a Ralf fan would want them banned - it'd be taking Ralf's crutches and breaking his arms all at once.

Then again, it's less urgent now, because the rule changes for 2003, coupled with the icnreasing closeness of the top 4 teams, ensured that we had a pretty exciting, dramatic, and meritocratic season anyway.

There are other causes for boring races as well. Other design aspects, especially the reliance on aerodynamic grip (which makes it harder to stay close behind teh car in front through corners), and the grooved tyres leaving less rubber on the track, don't help matters. The icnreasing professionalism and corporate responsibility of teams means taht drivers are too nervous of the consequences of a mistake, whcih isn't really their fault. The newer circuits are often too tight for much overtaking to be possible, and (although this is a matter of some debate) teh gaps in the point systems might be too close for drivers to consider making risky moves.

[Adam43]

Sort of both "Yes" and "Nope". I think it will be better, but it won't make a night and day difference the cars will still be fundamentally the same. And I agree with the drivers attitudes changing, it is OK to be overtaken guys, it isn't the end of the world.

However, better racing is not the only reason to ban driving aids.

For me the main reason is that I want it to be even harder. So that the drivers have to do even more. Of course if you get it right it will still look the same, except it will be harder to achieve that.

For me it has to be everything. TC, LC, auto (and semi-auto) 'boxes.

[GP Racer]

I've got say no to banning driver aids.

The Champ Car series here, probably the closest series to F1, doesn't have any driver aids, yet they still produce some very boring races, with little action and passing.

I will say though, it does get exciting without traction control, when there on cold tires, and sliding around turns. Also, watching the drivers shift gears is great.

Automatically you would think, that no driver aids would help, but it really doesn't seem to.

[ASCII Man]

Can someone add a 'Both' option or something?
I'll go with what Adam said as it makes more sense as what i would have said.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
Can someone add a 'Both' option or something?

It's Ralf fan's poll, what do you say Ralf fan?

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Automatically you would think, that no driver aids would help, but it really doesn't seem to.

It does indeed not seem to make a difference, but at the very, very least you know deep down inside that the drivers are working their asses off for that pass, qualifying lap or whatever.

[ralf fan]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
It's Ralf fan's poll, what do you say Ralf fan?

anything for Mr. Ashmore and ASCII!!
ok go ahead add it!! and whom ever wants to change their vote plz. contact the MODS.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
It does indeed not seem to make a difference, but at the very, very least you know deep down inside that the drivers are working their asses off for that pass, qualifying lap or whatever.

Very true ASCII!

I think thats what the fans of Champ Cars enjoy so much about that series. Many former F1 drivers that have gone there have called it, a true drivers series.

[Adam43]

Done. Contact the mods?

[paulzinho]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore

For me the main reason is that I want it to be even harder. So that the drivers have to do even more. Of course if you get it right it will still look the same, except it will be harder to achieve that.

For me it has to be everything. TC, LC, auto (and semi-auto) 'boxes.

What he said!!!

I don't think there will be a huge visual difference but it would allow drivers to pressure others into making a small mistake which would then allow passing (such as missing a gear or applying too much throttle coming out of a slow corner).

But most importantly you'd see the driver skill in front of you. Not some anonymous computer technician.

[Redblurr]

TC, LC and DC and do No2 drivers count as driver aids

[shiny side up!]

I'm all for banning the aids. TC, LC, Gearboxes, Diffs, Power Steering, #2 drivers, brothers, you name it... give em' a mechanical throttle linkage, too! The only things that should be allowed to be changed from the cockpit during the race are throttle, brake, clutch, steering angle, brake bias, anti-roll bar, and tear-offs... and they should all be done manually by the driver! Still won't make the series instantly un-boring, as there is still too much reliance on aerodynamics and stupid groovy tires to allow really tight racing, but banning the aids would be a start...

[jj2728]

if anything, i'd have them ban traction control.....

[Liz]

It doesn't matter what you ban, as long as the drivers are not there with a sportsmanlike attitude. If their only attitude is maximize their cash reward and "win at ALL costs" and I do mean ALL -- then banning crutches will only make the racing more dangerous.

If it were possible to go back to the days of "gentlemen racers" then I'd say go for it. But I'm afraid that would take banning all the crutches and letting an unacceptable number of drivers be crippled or killed before the lesson would be learned that if we don't take care of one another we will all end up in the ditch.

[avsfan733]

F1 is supposed to be about technology, the Williams program of going for the constructors championship first is the best team plan I know of. Look back at the old can-am book, the rule book was only about a page long and allowed for the most advanced and different cars of there time. That provided great racing. No matter what you do, costs will rise and the richest will win. The old adage "speed costs, how fast do you want to go" is always going to be even more true at a level where innovation is totally king.

[Adam43]

On Motors TV as we speak, er type, is Thoroughbred Grand Prix and I'm afraid it looks bloody marvellous.

[jj2728]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
On Motors TV as we speak, er type, is Thoroughbred Grand Prix and I'm afraid it looks bloody marvellous.

wish i could get it here..

[Mark Webber]

No .I think it would make little to no difference

[Kirk]

Originally posted by shiny side up!
I'm all for banning the aids. TC, LC, Gearboxes, Diffs, Power Steering, #2 drivers, brothers, you name it... give em' a mechanical throttle linkage, too! The only things that should be allowed to be changed from the cockpit during the race are throttle, brake, clutch, steering angle, brake bias, anti-roll bar, and tear-offs... and they should all be done manually by the driver! Still won't make the series instantly un-boring, as there is still too much reliance on aerodynamics and stupid groovy tires to allow really tight racing, but banning the aids would be a start...

Sums it up nicely for me !!!!!

[Speed]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
On account of that, I find it wierd that a Ralf fan would want them banned - it'd be taking Ralf's crutches and breaking his arms all at once.

[ralf fan]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide

On account of that, I find it wierd that a Ralf fan would want them banned - it'd be taking Ralf's crutches and breaking his arms all at once.

geez howd i miss that one!!

BTW im as interested as you are to see better races.

[f1manoz]

Banning aids would be a step in the right direction. That is, putting more emphasis on driver skill.

[Glen]

Apologies for not readig the whole thread - but... The Answer to WHAT? F1 is just great, 2003 was fab, what more do you want? If you think there was loads more overtaking in bygone times you are just remembering selectively, in my opinion.

So - take away aids if you like, or not. all the same to me - I don't think it will make much difference to the outcomes.