Future Of Champ Car

jklein6419 · 13 Mar 2004, 01:21 (Ref:903995)

AFTER ALL THE RECENT NEGATIVE NEWS SURROUNDING CHAMP CAR, SOME OF US HAVE LOST A LITTLE FAITH. BUT CHAMP CAR RACING HAS A VERY BRIGHT FUTURE IN THE DISTANCE. WHY YOU ASK, BECAUSE OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO POSTS ON THIS FORUM, EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO GOES TO THE RACES, AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO GETS KNOTS IN THEIR STOMACH THE MORNING OF A CHAMP CAR RACE. CHAMP CAR FANS HAVE STAYED LOYAL THROUGH SO MUCH NONE SENSE. THATS WHY ITS UP TO US TO KEEP THIS SPORT ALIVE AND NOT GIVE UP. WE HAVE THE BEST VENUES, DRIVERS, AND ESPECIALLY THE BEST FANS. WE WILL PREVEIL BECAUSE WE WILL NEVER GO AWAY. KEEP FAITH
LONG LIVE CHAMP CAR

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 01:28 (Ref:903998)

I wish I could share the sentiment jklein6419, once I could but no longer. I think the climb out of this hole is simply too great, and no matter how much the fans may want it to survive, ragardless of the emotional attachment to the series it all comes down to plain old $$$$$.

Oh and by the way, could you turn off your capslock?

Cheers.

jklein6419 · 13 Mar 2004, 01:35 (Ref:904000)

i felt the same way you did last night 3state, all the rumours and doom and gloom is killing all of our hope. but you must relize, the 3 amigos have put too much effort into this thing. they wont let the series collapse before the season even starts. once the cars are on the track every champ car fan will feel better. after the las vegas race in november, we will look back on this as nothing more than a fart in the wind.

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 01:53 (Ref:904009)

Maybe jklein6419...and a part of me hopes you're right, but I can't be upbeat and positive in light of this news.

Champcar seems to be suffering a long agonising death over the past few years, and there are times like now when I wonder whether it would be more merciful to pull the life-support. Few can say it isn't a shadow of its former self.

I'm afraid that all the positive thinking on our part won't change how the events play out one iota. And all the money and dedication that messrs Gentilozzi, Kalkhoven, and Fosythe have will mean nought if the sponsors and their teams they support decide to desert especially when the racing season is just around the corner.

I just don't see it getting off the ground this year. I'm just glad I have number of other interests besides motosport - because other than F1, which may turn out to be another snorefest this year judging by the race in melbourne, I guess I won't be watching too much of it in 2004.

In the long-term (and this is going to sound like heresy to some) we'll look with hindight at the ultimate formation of one series and the events occuring now as inevitable, although I wouldn't go so far as to rate them as being nothing more than a fart in the wind
I won't be watching IRL in 2004 or possibly in 2005, but maybe when the dust has settled I'll reconsider after that.

That's life, and life goes on...

codename_47 · 13 Mar 2004, 02:03 (Ref:904014)

That may be true 3state, but the wrong series had to die!

Bit depressed at the moment, since Motorsport is the only sport I follow, and with F1's showing in Melbourne, and now this, things are looking bad all over (I actually remarked after the Checkered Flag in Melbourne "Thank God Champcar is still alive!" Must've been me that cursed it!)

If worst case scenario, I wake up tomorrow and hear that Champ Car is to be no more, that'll be it for me, NASN can have my £10 a month and I'll be watching NASCAR.
If the IRL want to re-consider their chasis and downforce regs in a couple of years, combined with road racing, I MAY be back, no promises....

But for tonight, until I hear any different, I will be willing to believe (and wishing) that there WILL be a Long Beach, there WILL be a Champ Car whole season, there WILL be a Road America to look forward to, the push to pass and sundry other new rules WILL create exciting races, and once more people will come away from a Champ Car race, be it in person or just on TV, with a smile on their face....I'll continue to believe in that for as long as possible, all the same!

To tomorrow then...and another day of big announcements I expect...

jklein6419 · 13 Mar 2004, 02:14 (Ref:904023)

once the green flag drops at long beach, all this doom and gloom will be put to rest. you just have to believe in your series

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 02:17 (Ref:904025)

I expect we'll know for sure in the next few days. I'm not happy about it either - far from it actually. However, not being the religious type I've never been one for faith - it makes us blind to reality, and reality isn't looking so rosy - it hasn't for a long time.

Was it faith or a hard-nosed business decision which prevailed with Tecate's/Fernandez Racing's departure from Champ Car? Do you think faith will prevail in the decisions that other teams and sponsors make over the next few days? I suspect not because when it comes down to it, faith doesn't put food on the table.

So while it's all well and good to wish that IRL would go away, the reality is that IRL is now the stronger player- and it's the strongest that ultimately survives. Wishing the IRL would go away is like wishing that the elephant which came and sat on you house, flattening it, would disappear. There's no getting around the elephant or that your house is a pile of matchwood.

I suspect in the long run, the IRL will evolve into what CART once was, it will have to, with an even number of road and ovals. But maybe now is not the time to discuss that.

Am I upset and bitterly disappointed? Definitely, but there isn't much i can do about it, and i'm not so egotistical to think that believing in a racing series or otherwise, will any impact on the course of events about to unfold.

jklein6419 · 13 Mar 2004, 02:24 (Ref:904028)

i am not a very religious person myself. maybe i should have changed my wording to trust. trust the 3 amigos. when people like fernandez and other fence sitters leave, it only shows what their real intentions were. if they dont want to be involved and focused 100 percent on our series, then let the door hit them on the way out.

codename_47 · 13 Mar 2004, 02:28 (Ref:904029)

Quote:

Originally posted by 3state
I expect we'll know for sure in the next few days. I'm not happy about it either - far from it actually. However, not being the religious type I've never been one for faith - it makes us blind to reality, and reality isn't looking so rosy - it hasn't for a long time.

Was it faith or a hard-nosed business decision which prevailed with Tecate's/Fernandez Racing's departure from Champ Car? Do you think faith will prevail in the decisions that other teams and sponsors make over the next few days? I suspect not because when it comes down to it, faith doesn't put food on the table.

So while it's all well and good to wish that IRL would go away, the reality is that IRL is now the stronger player- and it's the strongest that ultimately survives. Wishing the IRL would go away is like wishing that the elephant which came and sat on you house, flattening it, would disappear. There's no getting around the elephant or that your house is a pile of matchwood.

I suspect in the long run, the IRL will evolve into what CART once was, it will have to, with an even number of road and ovals. But maybe now is not the time to discuss that.

Am I upset and bitterly disappointed? Definitely, but there isn't much i can do about it, and i'm not so egotistical to think that believing in a racing series or otherwise, will any impact on the course of events about to unfold.

Well, sorry if my wishing for the best offends you!

The trouble is, if you're always looking for the doom and gloom, you'll blind yourself to the silver lining....

However, I believe we're just talking in riddles now, so I'll leave the pessimism aside and just let you get on with the eulogy!

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 02:35 (Ref:904030)

This isn't just about the loss of one car from the grid atlhough given Champcar precarious state even one car is disasterous. This event effectively means the loss of Mexico and Monterray, and a large part of the Mexican support, which has been crucial in keeping Champ Car alive. This reflects a profound lack of faith in (or trust if you will) on the part of sponsors and teams that's pervading the Champcar paddock - and something which can only worsen now that Tecate and Fernandez have departed.

I trust that messers G,K,F will do everything in their power to reap the reward for their investment. I trust they are serious about Champcar's survival. However I trust that other teams and sponsors will defect or pull our entirely, and i also trust that no matter ho hard that G,K,F try they face a herculean task given the mounting odds. My trust in GKF however or my love of Champcars isn't even on the radar when it comes to the decisions that are being made as we write this...

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 02:46 (Ref:904034)

Codename 47, there was no offence on my part and your attack on me is childish and unwarranted.

I've watched Champcars for more than 10 years, before the IRL was even in picture. I love the series, or at least what the series was. I've watched maybe 3 or 4 IRL races in that time, and have not been impresses. I don't like Tony George and I wish the IRL had never happened. Have I outlined my Champcar creditials sufficiently for you?

Yes, i don't like the IRL but me not liking it won't change that the fact that it's here to stay. In fact there are a lot of things i wish would never happen in life (some far more important than the the demise of Champcar) but they do and we deal with it.

I hope the 3 amigos can pull it off, but what I saying here is my hope or yours won't affect the events that are currently taking place. If you disagree then fine but to expect me to not express my opinion on this forum because I'm pessimistic based on logically extrapolating the events of the past few days is uncalled for and not in the spirit of ten-tenths.

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 02:56 (Ref:904038)

I, for one will be very happy if I'm proven wrong and the three amigos pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat but I suspect they're fresh out of rabbits and sponsors won't be providing any.

Judging by your reaction codename_47 I guess only those who want to huddle together reassuring each other than everything will be all right need post on this thread? All heretics and doubters should be cast out...trust me, I'd love to have that kind of faith and I get no joy out of stating that this amounts to the end of Champcar. Doesn't mean I won't state it if all the facts point to it being more than likely true.

jklein6419 · 13 Mar 2004, 03:33 (Ref:904051)

i dont think tecate is out of champ car. they still sponser one of the mexican races.

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 03:39 (Ref:904053)

well I guess let's see how that plays out over the coming days. I'll refrain from posting on the subject for the time being.

D.R.T. · 13 Mar 2004, 04:05 (Ref:904061)

I'll back them. Everyone has come too far to turn back now, except for Fernandez. We just need to push on andhope for the best. Play the cards your dealt and hope for a better hand next time

BootsOntheSide · 13 Mar 2004, 11:16 (Ref:904258)

I'm quite negative about things. Getting an 18 car grid will be extremely difficult, and even if they do, expect lots of paydrivers. Almost all the top drivers are in the IRL now - Castroneves, Dixon, Hornish, Fernandez, Kanaan, Franchitti, Wheldon, Rice, Barron.....

It'd be a tragedy if ChampCars continues to decline, but perhaps their quick demise could save open-wheel racinh. Basically I'll give them until the first race of 2005 to turn the show around. The IRL will have road courses by then, and everyone will have had a year to see what's happening. If OWRS still look weak, I'll wish for a quick end, for the good of the sport.

Hazza · 13 Mar 2004, 11:50 (Ref:904293)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
It'd be a tragedy if ChampCars continues to decline, but perhaps their quick demise could save open-wheel racinh. Basically I'll give them until the first race of 2005 to turn the show around. The IRL will have road courses by then, and everyone will have had a year to see what's happening. If OWRS still look weak, I'll wish for a quick end, for the good of the sport.

I feel bad saying this but, I agree, I personaly feel that the future of American Open Wheel racing lies with the IRL, if that turns out not to be the case, I'll be delighted, but some one has to do it.

3state · 13 Mar 2004, 11:55 (Ref:904303)

Hazza, I don't think you're alone in sayng it. There's more than a few champcar stalwarts on this forum who feel the same way right now.

Ac. · 13 Mar 2004, 16:37 (Ref:904487)

Hazza, if the future of open wheel in America lies with the IRL then you can basically kiss the sport good bye IMO. The IRL is losing ground that will not be regained if OWRS fails.

1. Fans are not flocking to see IRL races. Less than 40,000 showed up to see the 2004 season opener in Miami despite the new track configuration. Of those people, many received their IRL ticket as part of a NA$CAR ticket package for the speedway. Without the bundling the attendance would have been much less.

2. Indy 500 attendance and tv ratings have continued to fall year after year. Some predicted that this trend would change with Penske, Andretti, and Ganassi joining the IRL, but the slide continues.

3. Many American based open wheel road and street races have struggled under CART. In 2003, other than Long Beach, none of the US based races could be considered a huge success. The IRL taking over some street/road races wont change this trend.

4. The IRL has no intention of attempting to serve the international markets the CART has been strong in. If OWRS ultimately fails and the IRL gets the opportinity to take over some races, they only want to cherry pick a few. If Toronto becomes the only Canadian race, and Mexico City the only Mexican stop, then the fans in these countries will quickly fall away. It's taken nearly 20 years to build the base for open wheel racing in Canada that exists today, returning to a single race under the IRL would set that progress back to the beginning. Australian fans would be lost entirely.

I believe that a successful future for open wheel lies in a North American based series with a strong international flavour. There are many cliches like "it's always darkest before the dawn" that OWRS fans are clinging to right now, wanting to see the new series succeed. I hope indeed that in this case it's true, or we may all(OWRS and IRL fans) suffer in the long run.

3state · 14 Mar 2004, 03:00 (Ref:904805)

Ac, many of your points are valid, however this doesn't alter the fact that Champcar is on the brink, and that the events surrounding Fernandez's departure may well be the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back regardless of what we may wish for.

I don't think the state of Open wheel racing in the US could be any worse than it is now - well non-existent maybe - but I suspect that if Champcar died, the IRL with half the teams being former Champcar teams, would inevitably gravitate push towards more street/road courses and more internation circuits, especially mexico, canada, and possibly even australia. There would be an internal momentum not to mention the vacuum left by OWRS. The result in a few year's time could well be something containing strong identifiable elements from both series. Maybe...at least should OWRS die, i hope so for as it stands IRL doesn't offer anything that I'm particularly interested in.

It is entirely possible that in spite of the demise of Champcar, open wheel racing will continue to languish and decline in the US given the juggernaut of NASCAR. Who can say? What I can say now is that in i seriously hoped OWRS would survive and lead a revival of Champcar, but suspect that there are a few people on this forum who failed to realise that the buyout was the easy part. Tony George may have prophetically stated: 'be careful what you wish for'. A grand failure such as the events relating to Fernandez's departure at such a critical time don't bode well even if they somewhow manage to claw their way through it. So I seriusly doubt, even if OWRS survives that it will be everything you implicity wish for in your post AC - with declining attendance, a lack of recognition in the US, brand confusion etc, it hasn't been for a long time.

Hazza · 14 Mar 2004, 03:27 (Ref:904808)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ac.

1. Fans are not flocking to see IRL races. Less than 40,000 showed up to see the 2004 season opener in Miami despite the new track configuration.

Fans don't turn out to watch the NASCAR race there either - I belive they have never sold out there?

Quote:

Originally posted by Ac.

2. Indy 500 attendance and tv ratings have continued to fall year after year. Some predicted that this trend would change with Penske, Andretti, and Ganassi joining the IRL, but the slide continues.

true.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ac.

3. Many American based open wheel road and street races have struggled under CART. In 2003, other than Long Beach, none of the US based races could be considered a huge success. The IRL taking over some street/road races wont change this trend.

Well if OWRS can't do it, having all the top teams, most of the (as close as you can get) "House hold names" in the series running at thoose racse wouldn't hurt though?

Quote:

Originally posted by Ac.

4. The IRL has no intention of attempting to serve the international markets the CART has been strong in. If OWRS ultimately fails and the IRL gets the opportinity to take over some races, they only want to cherry pick a few. If Toronto becomes the only Canadian race, and Mexico City the only Mexican stop, then the fans in these countries will quickly fall away. It's taken nearly 20 years to build the base for open wheel racing in Canada that exists today, returning to a single race under the IRL would set that progress back to the beginning. Australian fans would be lost entirely.

If you took away surfers, the people who watched the other races would still watch it, people would probably still turn up there because of our national series. Almost you could say that Surfers is almost "Surfers Paradise V8supercar Round - with thoose fast american cars". And if they don't race in mexico etc, that doesn't matter, aslong as that is where the money is. Formula One is showing more and more that heritige doesn't so much grant a profit anymore. IRL at the moement have a big momentum behind them, and I am fairly confident that If Tony took a race tom Elkheart lake tomorrow, it would be better promotted, and better supported than the same races turning up at with a field of 18 Champcars.

Following that, there has been a trend of the cream of OWRS teams each year to the IRL, 2001 - Penske, 2002, Ganassi, Team Green, 2003 - Fernandez. At this rate, there won't be any quality left in the field by 2006 (If there is a field, but then again, with any luck this trend will reverse) - and we can't underestimate the presence of the Penzoil Panther team, that brings back memories of the Hall Racing team - and they are racing in the IRL, not OWRS.

Lets pray that I am wrong!

Oh and finaly, Tony has the Indy 500, what was that analogy? You don't kill a tank by throwing stones at it.

stmookeyj033 · 14 Mar 2004, 06:29 (Ref:904827)

Quote:

Originally posted by Hazza

If you took away surfers, the people who watched the other races would still watch it, people would probably still turn up there because of our national series. Almost you could say that Surfers is almost "Surfers Paradise V8supercar Round - with thoose fast american cars".

They would not turn up, given that the Government would be reluctant to close off the streets of the Gold Coast just for a V8 race.

keeper · 14 Mar 2004, 06:36 (Ref:904828)

yes they will, img will make sure of that.. and the HONDA powered cars will be back in '05.

D.R.T. · 14 Mar 2004, 11:37 (Ref:904994)

The Qld Gov wouldn't chip in for a Taxi race, as they use the Gold Coast event as a tourism promotion tool.

jklein6419 · 14 Mar 2004, 17:55 (Ref:905154)

actually hazza i went to the nascar race in homestead last year in it appeared to be sold out to me. there was no room breath for crying outloud

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