F1 Qualifying

[oziengineer]

Over two years, we have seen F1 change quite dramatically, esp in qualifying. Which system was better, because you can see some drivers, like montoya and coulthard prefer the old system and it shows in the amount of poles that they have bagged. Particularly with monty, who got 7 in 2002 and 1 in 2003.

[Kicking-back]

That has more to do with cars and tyres than it does the qualifying changes.

[Adam43]

Yes Montoya had a car in 2001 that he could bully onto pole, he hasn't had as good a one lap car (and tyres as k-b said) in the last year and a bit...

A general point, well I think that the old system was more exciting -
The laps were more balls out
Everyone got a chance to respond to someone elses great lap (now only the last person out gets to respond and this is the only lap with any tension now...)

and, God forbid, it was fairer! (Crickey what has fair got to do with GP racing!).

and the fuel rule is daft and IMHO doesn't help mixing the grid for the race (I would like someone on a two stop to line up ahead of someone on a 3 stop - that is a mixed grid).

Still, it would take a miracle to get everyone to agree to a change...

[oziengineer]

Why did they bring in one lappers anyway? was it another act of cost cutting nazism, because it is all round c r apness

[Gt_R]

Partly because in the old system, teams usually only run after halfway through the hour...which means spectators are left baking in the sun for almost 30mins of NOTHING before witnessing a mad dash... and smaller teams hence lost out vital air-time as TV cameras catch the red, blue/white, or silver cars only.

[BootsOntheSide]

One shot qualifying tends to be exciting in Superbikes, and I'm convinced that one hour was too long for the older system, because the cars spent so long in the garages.

The toruble is, it can be very random, especially when rain itnervened - that session at Suzuka last eyar was ridiculous. They have to go back to a 12-lap session in the event of rain, and I suspect they will the next time it happens.

[hamsmith]

I prefered the old system where you could see the lap times gradually getting better as the drivers get to understand the conditions of the track over four lots of out,hot and in laps. i used to love it when in the last few minutes all the cars would pile out on the track and give it everything they could to put in the fastess lap.
I miss the excitment of not really knowing who will be on pole untill the last minute.
Now if the driver you are rooting for goes out and cocks up you feel a little disapointed. at least with the old style quali he could of had another bash.
Teams do need to be forced to take some of there runs earlier in the session though.

[frederick]

I'm not such a big fan of the 12 lap free-for-all because you never know which car you should be looking at when your'e at the track and the TV director doesn't know when you're at home.....too often you don't know about the hot lap until it's over and a time appears on screen

The one lap screamer is good because you get to watch the whole lap for each car, you can play "spot the difference" with regard to car and/or driver

IMHO i don't think they need to change much as it stands now.......just make BOTH runs count towards a grid position having a qualifying run that is ignored in favour of another one right after it is just fecking bizarre.....IMHO

[CamF1]

I think both versions have their good and bad points. Personally I like the older system pre '96, two one hour sessions, 12 laps and the best time of the two sessions is used.

[krt917]

Originally posted by frederick
I'm not such a big fan of the 12 lap free-for-all because you never know which car you should be looking at when your'e at the track and the TV director doesn't know when you're at home.....too often you don't know about the hot lap until it's over and a time appears on screen

The one lap screamer is good because you get to watch the whole lap for each car, you can play "spot the difference" with regard to car and/or driver

That's the best argument for the new system I've heard: it is good to see all of each lap, but, on balance I agree with Adam:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
A general point, well I think that the old system was more exciting -
The laps were more balls out
Everyone got a chance to respond to someone elses great lap (now only the last person out gets to respond and this is the only lap with any tension now...)
and, God forbid, it was fairer! (Crickey what has fair got to do with GP racing!).

I'd rather the genuinely quickest car-driver combo be on pole. There is obviously skill to getting pole with just one shot, but I don't really think it's what qualifyng should be about. And that's before we get onto the silly fuel loads....

[Michael S]

Keep the same system as now but add a 10 or 15 min session at the end for a free for all but allow no changes to the car.

[Schummy]

If they revert to a 12-lap qualify format, I'd prefer they use a lap time info as in FIM bike sessions: 4 split time zones around the track, color code for best overall split time and best personal split time, and real time clocks for two or three drivers at the same time if necessary.

I always thought FIM GP's screen info is a lot better than F1's. LOL, I even think CART's screen info is better! And now in F1 they have done a new format with tiny characters and the same scarce info than before, the worst of both worlds! . I suppose the big names in F1 have huge screens in their homes...

[slicktoast]

Didn't go into effect to stop the whine: "I was on a flyer but so 'n so held me up."

[Wrex]

I have been promoting 1 lap Superpole since I started here, and still support it.

The 12 lap qualifying does'nt punish mistakes, and I would rather see a driver risking it all over 1 lap than doing a couple of bankers and taking 1 swipe at at the last minute.

I also think 1 lap quals gives another skill for some to be strong at, and others to be weak. Another thing for the driver to get right. IMO, the more mistakes a driver makes, or the more skills a driver must have, the better it is for F1.

However, I never wanted them to have to do it with fuel. I propose 1 of the 2 following sessions.

1) Have it like it was last season, a session on Friday and a session on Saturday (no race fuel in each) and combine the times.

2) Have a 1 hour qual session on the Friday, then a Superpole (no fuel) for the TOP 10 on the Saturday.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by frederick
I'm not such a big fan of the 12 lap free-for-all because you never know which car you should be looking at when your'e at the track and the TV director doesn't know when you're at home.....too often you don't know about the hot lap until it's over and a time appears on screen

The one lap screamer is good because you get to watch the whole lap for each car, you can play "spot the difference" with regard to car and/or driver

IMHO i don't think they need to change much as it stands now.......just make BOTH runs count towards a grid position having a qualifying run that is ignored in favour of another one right after it is just fecking bizarre.....IMHO

As krt917 already sad - this is the best supporting argument for one-lap quals so far, but still, I'd add a few changes.
Give them an hour (a lap each) both on friday and saturday, and take the better time for the grid.

And let them refuel. No set-up changes or engine re-tuning, but just let them qualify and leave the tactics for the race.

[climb]

Honestly I like the current system; it's not true that this one is less fair than the previous; ok now there is a (rare) risk about weather, but with the old system there was a (very frequent) risk about traffic.

[f1atic]

There was something to be said for the 'old' system of drivers having an hour and 12 laps to put it together, but all too often everything happened in the final 10 to 15 minutes. Half of the time, Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams wouldn't even venture onto the track until there was but 20 minutes left.

I think that last season saw a very good system that made for some interesting racing. It gave some of the teams with smaller budgets a shot at pole and some camera coverage in both qualifying and very importantly, in the race.

Aside from tyres and overall performance, the qualifying system utilized last season favored the driver (not always the same one) who could most quickly adapt to the track, usually from one of the top teams.

The one thing that I have truly favored about last season and this one is that they must run the same car, in the same condition in which it qualified. Prior to last year, teams like Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and probably even Toyota, Jag and BAR, qualified with an engine designed ONLY for that purpose. This system, by design, favored the teams with the best budgets and provided an imbalance to the field automatically.

[Damon]

We had this very debate at the pub the other night and came up with a system that, imho, would work really rather well. Bernie seems set on keeping this 1 lap thing, while the fans want a return to the system of old. The additional problem we have this year is that the first half that decides the order is pretty much a waste of time as no one bothers pushing very hard in the knowledge that the track condition isn't going to be different much if they go a little earlier in the session as cars are running constantly.

The idea we had was to return it to a one hour session on the friday and a one hour session on the saturday. The friday session will be used to decide the order for the saturday as it did last year but will run in the good old fashioned way of each driver having one hour and 12 laps to set their best possible time. Then on the saturday Bernie can have his single lap gubbins, but pole is an aggregate of the two sessions times. What do you reckon? It would certainly mix things up and give the fans, the teams and Bernie exactly what they want. Everyone wins!

[Knowlesy]

That would be excellent. But it wouldn't happen would it?!?

[Kicking-back]

The one lap system is good because of that element of risk - do you push too hard and go off, or play safe and slip down the grid.

And the fuel regulation is good because it stops teams making a separate "qualifying car".

[oziengineer]

It might be good theoretically, but a shorter, say 40 min 12 lap session would see a much more interesting fight for pole.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Damon
We had this very debate at the pub the other night and came up with a system that, imho, would work really rather well. Bernie seems set on keeping this 1 lap thing, while the fans want a return to the system of old. The additional problem we have this year is that the first half that decides the order is pretty much a waste of time as no one bothers pushing very hard in the knowledge that the track condition isn't going to be different much if they go a little earlier in the session as cars are running constantly.

The idea we had was to return it to a one hour session on the friday and a one hour session on the saturday. The friday session will be used to decide the order for the saturday as it did last year but will run in the good old fashioned way of each driver having one hour and 12 laps to set their best possible time. Then on the saturday Bernie can have his single lap gubbins, but pole is an aggregate of the two sessions times. What do you reckon? It would certainly mix things up and give the fans, the teams and Bernie exactly what they want. Everyone wins!

Sounds like some good drinking buddies you've got there - msot of mine aren't into F1 at all.

I really like this suggestion. The other good thing about aggregating the times is that the significance of running a heavier car in qualifying (and thus making mroe pitstops in the race) is halved. This will encourage different strategic choices, and give more chance of cars having to overtake.

And as for the accusations of 'cost-cutting Nazism' (and please don't use the n-word again - that involved the slaughter of 6 million plus people one man didn't like - ths involves changing the rule sof a sport), believe me that changes will need to be made to keep teams alive. Throughout F1 history the rule shave been reined in for various reasons, and it's essentail to keep the sport alive.

[DriverT]

I agree, that's a really nice suggestion. It may give something a bit closer, especially for drivers like DC who is only just starting to come to terms with the 1-lap qualifying.

[Pingguest]

I would like to see a 45 minutes normal qualifying, without a limit of maximum laps. If the drivers want to drive more than 12, 20 or 25 laps in qualifying, they should have the opportunity to do so. Afther the 45 minutes qualifying the top-3 will get points. The pole-sitter will get three points, the second two, and third one point.

Afther the 45 qualifying, there would be a superpole-session for the top-8. The drivers with the superpole will get one point. The parc fermé-rules will be abolished.