BAR vs WILLIAMS vs RENAULT

[Gt_R]

Behind Ferrari, the fight for "Best of the Rest" is heating up.... with 3 clear contenders emerging... Step forward RENAULT, BAR, and WILLIAMS.

So who is the best? Look beyond each team's star driver... Judge based on 2 main factors...

1) CAR PACKAGE - the car/tyres/engine/chassis/developement potential/technical excellence

2) TEAM - depth of team/quality of personnels/resources/developement ability/operational readiness.

..who do you conclude as the best team of the current trio?

:confused:

[DriverT]

BAR at the moment.

[Gt_R]

Anyways, to kick start it, here's a short take on the 3 teams recent form

1)Williams - Sam Michael insist that there is fundamentally nothing wrong with the car in aero/handling. The BMW is no doubt still a strong unit, and while expectations of the tusk-nosed car isn't met, they have secured their podium-scoring form. Williams insist work is underway to squeeze more pace, and the potential of the car's performance is good. Would the new additions to the technical department unlock the door to success?

2) BAR - the surprise! Richard claims he's learning from Todt's way of controlling the team. Useful additions to the team + a vastly improved Honda + car had propelled the team to the front, with 3 podiums and 1 pole in 4 races. Rate of developement so far is great...the team seem to learn more every day, and getting quicker...The team seem to have a new focus, a new hope.

3) Renault - Renault seem to be happy with the cars reliability and handling, claiming to now be able to focus to get even more power from the engine. Recent tests gives positive result. Race performance is good, threatening Williams in recent couple of GP.

[Mr V]

Well, BAR have 3 podiums so far, although 1 of them was at JPM's expence, which would have meant 3 for Williams/JPM 2 for BAR/Jenson. BUT, as Williams had the failure and BAR didn't, i'd put BAR as second best.....at the moment.

Imo, Williams will end up as second best team behind Ferrari by the middle of the season.

[Fogelhund]

A couple of good races does not make enough of a difference in my mind. Williams will come out as second best by the end of the season. BAR have taken tremendous strides though, and in lock step with Renault for third best so far.

[ljakse]

Since it's not clarified ( ) whether we're talking short or long term, I can't vote .

On the other hand, I can say my 2c worth:

In this season, I believe Williams will be right behind Ferrari (unless some miracle happens in Woking) - I think that they have the best package at the moment, but just had a bit of bad luck.
But, on long term basis, my vote goes to Renault - they have very strange philosophy when compared to the rest of the grid - they go for reliability first, and then they build speed along the way (all the rest go for speed, and then look for reliability). In the world of F1 that is unusual approach, but Renault showed in the past that they know what they are doing.

And then comes BAR - in any 'term'. Of course, if Honda buys the whole team, it might be completely different story...

Sure, I'm ready to be reminded of these words in the future, but hey! it's only opinion!

[Testure]

As of right now? BAR.
Medium-to-long term? Williams.

BAR don't have the facilities, experience, personnel, etc. to compete at their current level for, say, 10 or 20 years in the way that Williams have.

[Gt_R]

Ok...make it "This season".

[300kph]

I go for Renault for the entire season...

[Knowlesy]

Originally posted by Mr V

Imo, Williams will end up as second best team behind Ferrari by the middle of the season.

This I'm not so sure about......in the last two years when Renault have run higher than expected there was an inevitability that they would be caught. I'm getting a different feeling about BAR.....

We'll see. I just hope one of them gets in a championship challenging position!

[ralf fan]

BAR... erm they certainly have exceeded all expectations... i expected a podium here and there but they have shown that they are consistant...

Williams.. at the moment they are lagging behind BAR... but i expect them to be there and probably be ahead of BAR

Renault... i think they can gather points when they are struggling 9 pts at Imola show that...

it will be close i think Williams will be 2nd but i doubt anyone of these teams will be able to come near Ferrari

[Knowlesy]

It must be said though, Renault have been a dissapointment.

They're a shadow of their pre-seasonm selves.

Fernando was crowing about the car pre-season, and the times backed him up. By the time we got to Malaysia he was saying the car "wasn't as good as people are saying". I find that slightly confusing!

[Meroo]

Me thinks Honda have got serious.

[swatty]

Have to say BAR at the moment, lets hope this continues until season end. Note that they have set their sights on second in the Manufacturers Championships which I think is a realistic goal even is williams improve, as they undoubtably will.

[ASCII Man]

At the moment BAR, but Williams will bounce back and get 2nd.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think it'll be Williams as the seaosn go on. Remember that, even thoguh BAR have amde a strong start, Montoya has outqualified Button twice, and Jenson only once (same time in Australia), and in each case the fast qualifier got the better result (or was set to). BAR have had more mechanical failures as well.

[climb]

Think Williams, albeit hopinbg for BAR; new kids are always better welcomed on the block IMO.
Nonetheless, Williams have all that is required to improve, probably more than BAR, who are already doing a fantastic job.

[zetta]

Williams, but not by far. Specially if Ralf continues his lacklustre performance which has turned Williams into a 1 car team, mostly. If Ralf picks up his pace, it will be very difficult for BAR to beat Williams.

[golem]

This will be the battle to watch this year.

Williams has JPM who seems to be quite revved up, but so is Button and Alonso is just as good. Ralf is in a slump, Trulli seems to be taking it to Alonso where he can, and we saw Sato v Ralf earlier and I think it's safe to say Sato when push comes to shove, is a racer.

The Renault seems to be down a little on power compared to the BMW, while the Honda seems to be in the middle from just watching. Any trap speeds to confirm this? Anyway, reliability wise Renault is on top of things. BAR still has trouble (Sato's car) and Williams also lunched a box for JPM when he could have nailed points

However, Williams seems to be struggling to get the thing to make grip. BAR and Renault both seem to have no such problems. And I'd like to bet that the BAR has really adapted to it's Michelins well, with a solid aero package.

When the cars come into pits, Renault seem to be the quickest. They do very fast stops and the other weekend reminded us of their pit srategy being strong. I can remember last year their cars leapfrogging through the pit strategy too. Williams next, BAR seem a little shabby here. They've made the odd error or been a bit slower at times.

Preperation and Qualifying is where Button is good in this format. Sato is not doing to bad, 2nd season. He's the rookie in this group. Davidson does alot of work Friday. BAR prepares better it seems to me. Williams is next. JPM is way ahead of Ralf in qualifying and he's fast. Williams is struggling a little with setups though. Renault, can't say much other than qualifying errors so far have hurt the start position for Alonso. I imagine this won't be a factor for long though. Alonso will get it sorted quicksmart.

Overall, I'd say all three teams have areas to improve but BAR is closest. BAR just needs Sato's error rate to drop with some more experiance. Just a smidgen less would do. They then need their reliability to be more solid, and they'd be definate 2nd.They'd have the drivers to be capable against Renault's, and enough Powertrain to fight the Williams. the chassis seems good and BAR under Willis and Richards seems a much better sorted team that can put in the constant improvements.

BMW needs Ralf to get last years form where he would match and beat JPM in outright pace. When that happens, they can take 2nd. Their car will improve too. Last year, they did have the fastest car and they can do it again. But I think somehow the fixes will be hard to come by. They're a little downbeat. Morale will be low I think. Meanwhile, BAR are on a high and are hungry as hell lead by a confident principle and charismatic driver.

Renault needs the engine to grab more power and their preperations to go smoother. That's personnel and technical so will be hardest to get. But their drivers have the most potential so if they only get their package to even stevens with the 2ned fastest car, I reckon Alonso and Trulli will do the job. Renault is a steady team though, they're stable. So I think they're less likely than BAR to drop the ball.

But in the end, it's all guesswork. So I put my vote behind BAR. It's a gut feeling, and a little bias.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Ok...make it "This season".

OK, I voted

[Gt_R]

How much credit should we give to BAR's ability to run a third car in practice as a huge contribution factor to BAR's good form in qualifyings and race? BAR had made no secrets that Anthony Davidson had been a key factor in speeding up the team's preparation before race.

Williams and Renault are "denied" such a chance, does it matter?

Moreover, which team's car seem to be nearing the developement limit?

[jj2728]

at the moment?....BAR without a doubt...the entire team seems to have jelled wonderfully during the off season and this has carried over to the present.....how long can they keep it up is another question, but kudos to them....i think williams would be doing alot better if they dumped both of their 'prima donna' drivers.....and i think renault will be steady, but i just don't see them hitting the top step of the podium this year...

[Mags]

Does it really matter?? Ferrari have the year tied up. It is a war of words. NO ONE can beat them. BLAH.

[golem]

Yeah it does matter actually. I don't buy that 'first of the losers' ****. What a load. Still better than all but one. Also, it sets them up for a better run the following year.

[Dixie Flatline]

IMHO, I'm putting my money on Williams. BAR have looked good in the last three races, but Sir Frank and Patrick Head between them have the experience to improve the car during the season, while Sam Michael seems a savvy race engineer.

It would probably help if Ralf pulled his finger out, but he's distracted by his future, so JPM, serene in the knowledge of what he'll be doing this time next year, has the self-confidence to go out and try to nail qualifying and race positions. Sometimes it doesn't always come off, but at least he gives it a shot.

BAR seem to be building the team around Button now, which looks like a good long-term strategy in the vein of Ferrari and they have made use of a good designer in Geoff Willis and a better engine from Honda, though it's still prone to the odd grenade or two now and then. It's a close vote, but I think Williams' past experience at this caper just shades it.