Juan Pablo - brake failure @ spain

[freud]

Does anyone else thinks that Juan Pablo's brake failure at spain was due to his faulty driving technique??

The law of probability becomes invalid when it comes to Juan Pablo's car failures... sometimes its the engine, another times its brakes or gearboxes?? Are we seeing another Alesi in the making...

[senna12]

Williams have chosen to blame it on too small brake cooling ducts. The fact that JP is a heavy, late braker certainly didn't help.

[freud]

*post deleted*


And they will continue to be deleted until we stop the auto sensor dodging


Wrex

[Mopar]

Im sorry but if you have a driver with the obvious skill of Montoya then the car should be adapted to suit his driving style! All F1 teams do it.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by Mopar
Im sorry but if you have a driver with the obvious skill of Montoya then the car should be adapted to suit his driving style! All F1 teams do it.

I agree.

So I wont be voting on this poll either (seem to be some silly ones lately).

I'm sure a drivers style has an effect on a cars reliablity, but it comes back to the team to either adapt the car to him or train him on a better technique.

[freud]

Originally posted by freud
[i]
And they will continue to be deleted until we stop the auto sensor dodging

auto sensor dodgin holy cow...

I didnt even realize that we have an auto sensor working 24/7... thanks for the reminder, wrex

Well the point is just that there are few other hard brakers as well. Jenson Button, for one, is very good. Hard, late braker, yet very smooth.

Though I agree with you with regards to the car. Williams should also do better... Its such a shame.

[Wrex]

Monty has more than his fair share, and I'm not a great believer in luck (good or bad).

I think smoother drivers are less likely to break things than others ie No matter what car you put them in, Juan will break more cars than Michael.

However with the millions of dollars in gear they have on the pit wall, surely they can identify things a driver does that could be a problem, and either adapt the part or warn the driver. These are'nt Forumula Vee's afterall.

[climb]

I wouldn't blame it all on JPM. I mean, if he had such problems every two races we could talk about a wrong braking attitude, but it's the first time in ages that we see that happen, therefore it's a typical accidental failure.

[Gt_R]

Firstly, why would a team as experienced as Williams running on a track they've tested millions of laps on, make such a fundamental mistake of "risking a smaller brake duct".

[avsfan733]

after the shenanigans with brakes in bahrain, i would have thought teams would have been a little more carfeul with sizing of ducts...not to mention there is no excuse at a track like barcelona which gets tested at all the time...not sure who was to blame but part of being a driver is driving the car to the finish although i think he tried to adapt and ended up cooking the rear brakes instead

[Onlooker]

They took a punt and it back fired,he could have just as easily got a good start and held out a fast starting Trulli and they both might have passed MS and slowed him down so that Rubens could have factored more in the result and then with the cracked exhurst and MS trying to race down the grid his car caught fire and they all look like heroes,it is a very fine line they are walking you know.

[Attila]

RS had exactly the same problem, but there is difference. I do not doubt that JPM is a faster driver than RS, but he is way too emotional. When a very early problem developes, the driver tries to nurse the car home and salvage some points. Ralf did exactly that, the team addmitted that he was very gentle on the brakes, whilst JMP just pushed. I see that as a problem with JMP. If he could look after his car like RS, he would be just as good as TGF. This is what MS is soo good at and this is what JMP has to improve. In my opinion JMP is a naturally quicker driver than MS, all he has to do is improving his technical skills and technical driving skills.

Cheers,

[DriverT]

You could say that it was just a bad failure. Martin Brundle said there was no way brakes should wear away to nothing at Barca as there are no corners where you have to use a large amount of brakes. JPMs driving style (and I am not a JPM fan by any stretch of the imagination) may have contributed a bit, but they shouldn't have failed.

Hence, IMHO, they were a dodgy set of brakes in the first place.

[Adam43]

I agree with DriverT (and others above).

Is JPM renowned for being hard on brakes? I'm not sure he is, this one off was one of those things.

As for a general thing about JPM. He is probably harder on the car than some others. I don't think it is excessive though and agree with Wrex that he doesn't do anything an F1 shouldn't be able to take.

However there is another reason why he is harder than some at the moment. He is having to drive his proverbials off to get it anywhere near the front.

[jetsetter]

In F1 you'd expect a major team to build their cars to suit the driver, if JPM is a heavy breaker than Williams should give him bigger brakes to suit his driving style.

[Cougar]

I recall Montoya saying that the breaks were gone by lap 3 already? So unless he left the handbrake on (would explain the slow start) I cant see how it could have been his fault.

[Armco Bender]

He won't need to use the brakes when he's driving the McLaren next season,it hardly goes fast enough to get out of its own way...

[BootsOntheSide]

I don't think JPM had anything to do with this failure, he didn't seem to make any wild braking moves on teh first few laps or in qualifying. They took an aggressive gamble to try to take a surprise win, and it didn't quite work. One of those things really.

[garcon]

Originally posted by Cougar21
I recall Montoya saying that the breaks were gone by lap 3 already? So unless he left the handbrake on (would explain the slow start) I cant see how it could have been his fault.

[b1ackcr0w]

I think the only guide we have here is Mika Hakkinen, who's driving style was absolutly vicious on brakes (because he used the brakes to make mid corner attitude corrections as well as trimming the speed of the car). Mclaren still built him cars that could just about stand up to a race distance.

The fact of the matter is that not only did he bring home the World Champs bacon, he was usually faster than Coulthard who was more sympathetic to the car. Which (IMO)means he was getting an advantage from hammering the brakes, but wasn't exceeding the limits of the cars capability because he brought it home often enough to win titles.

So it boils down to, Is he actually any harder on his brakes than other drivers, if so, is he any faster because of it, if so, does he break the car in the process? If that's a Yes, Yes, No - it's Williams problem - any other series of answers and it's down to JPM to sort it.

Unless of course he isn't any worse on the brakes than his team mate, in which case (as I suspect) there was a mechanical stuff up.

[DriverT]

Yes.

[Gt_R]

Some drivers drive in a manner which pushes the brakes more.. If Juan is one of those, then Williams should have known better than risk it with smaller air ducts to improve "aerodynamics". Does the performance gain actually outweigh the risk?

MS for example wears the brakes more than Rubens, because MS likes to play with the throttle and brakes at the same time..while RB is more of a accelerate-brake-accelerate driver (until he improved his left foot braking at Suzuka last year)..but so far Ferrari hasn't had major issues with MS.. even in Canada last year when MS had pretty serious brake problems, MS simply change his approach to driving to nurse the car home.

It's a 2 way thing..the team adapting to the driver and building a car to suit and the driver adapting to the car that the team made for him.

[Speed]

Originally posted by Cougar21
I recall Montoya saying that the breaks were gone by lap 3 already? So unless he left the handbrake on (would explain the slow start) I cant see how it could have been his fault.

Excellent response, Cougar. No more comments needed.

[Inigo Montoya]

This is one of the reasons I am not in favour of standardized brakes.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by freud
Does anyone else thinks that Juan Pablo's brake failure at spain was due to his faulty driving technique??

How come he didn't have brake failure at Spain in 2001, 2002, 2003? Surely his driving technique would have killed the brakes in those seasons too?