Bioethanol

PaulSands · 18 Jun 2004, 10:26 (Ref:1007714)

Given the current oil prices, dwindling supplies and poltical instability in the oil producing countries is now not the time for the premier motoracing series to grasp the nettle and set a date from which point they will run on 100% renewable fuel sources.
To me it seems a no-brainer as not only would they counter many of the criticisms about waste but would surely attract more maunfacturer interest as the race to develop faster and cleaner engines hotted up.

zefarelly · 18 Jun 2004, 10:43 (Ref:1007731)

the Yanks won't buy it Paul . . . .they'll invade every country in the world for fuel before they give up on petrol

PaulSands · 18 Jun 2004, 10:49 (Ref:1007737)

see I cant understand that either..I can see the vested interest of the oil companies but surely they can see its on its way out and sooner or later someone will have the means to really stand up to them and say f you our bombs are bigger and better so why arent they buying up all the mid western farmlands and developing the technology???

zefarelly · 18 Jun 2004, 10:52 (Ref:1007743)

who holds back the electric car ?

the technonlogy is there already I believe but we'll both be pushing up daisies before the industry does anything about it

Morris 1100 · 18 Jun 2004, 10:54 (Ref:1007746)

There is no shortage of oil, it is just that the people that own most of it are trying to push the price up.
In the early 1970s there was the big "oil crisis" and the price went through the roof, everyone was saying that the world was going to run out of oil by the 1980s and here we are 30 years later saying that same thing!

We are not going to run out of oil.

We may have to pay more because the people with the oil don't like us very much. (thanks George)
We may find cheaper alternatives and use them instead.

PaulSands · 18 Jun 2004, 10:54 (Ref:1007747)

grrrrrrrrrrrr
it's bloody annoying when you consider that the original Model T was designed to run on alcohol, petrol or a mixture of both
right!!! I can feel my millitant activist s**t stiring head growing back

PaulSands · 18 Jun 2004, 10:56 (Ref:1007750)

Quote:

Originally posted by Morris 1100

We may have to pay more because the people with the oil don't like us very much (thanks George)

nothing to do with the level of duty then ?

I was also thinking of the wider picture, you know saving the world for future generatons

Morris 1100 · 18 Jun 2004, 11:04 (Ref:1007758)

Quote:

Originally posted by zefarelly
who holds back the electric car ?

Lets face it, the electric car is not very good for the environment, the batteries are made from lots of toxic materials and not very efficient.
We need a big breakthrough in battery technology before electric vehicles can be used everyday.

imull · 18 Jun 2004, 16:44 (Ref:1008075)

the only time that electric cars become viable is once all the powerstations are nuclear or another renewable source.

not going to happen in the uk then, where they are apparently trying get rid of nuclear stations...

avsfan733 · 19 Jun 2004, 03:32 (Ref:1008440)

Quote:

Originally posted by zefarelly
who holds back the electric car ?

we do.. we do!

in reality gas isn't all that expensive...costs significantly less than a gallon of bottled water, and the so called renewable source (aka nuclear) aren't renewable unless you have figure out fission and are holding out on us

**Tim Falce** · 19 Jun 2004, 06:48 (Ref:1008502)

The problem with electric cars is that you still need to burn fossil fuels to create the energy to charge the battries. This is where nuclear fuel comes in.

qaz · 19 Jun 2004, 08:21 (Ref:1008525)

maybe we should all be issued with spacehoppers.

PaulSands · 19 Jun 2004, 18:53 (Ref:1008886)

Quote:

Originally posted by qaz
maybe we should all be issued with spacehoppers.

and Raleigh Choppers...used to work a treat for me 35 years ago

Rubinho · 20 Jun 2004, 03:01 (Ref:1009122)

In my opinion I think the reason the auto industry is putting so much emphasis on diesel engines right now (Le Mans, BTCC, high performance diesel road cars etc) is a sign of them starting the push towards bio-diesel.

I believe that the motor industry will hold on with dear life to the internal combustion engine which rules out fully electric cars for the near future. Normal family cars will be run on bio-diesel and dual fuel OTOH performance cars will develop a taste for running on alchohol.

Bob Riebe · 21 Jun 2004, 03:53 (Ref:1010315)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rubinho
In my opinion I think the reason the auto industry is putting so much emphasis on diesel engines right now (Le Mans, BTCC, high performance diesel road cars etc) is a sign of them starting the push towards bio-diesel.

I believe that the motor industry will hold on with dear life to the internal combustion engine which rules out fully electric cars for the near future. Normal family cars will be run on bio-diesel and dual fuel OTOH performance cars will develop a taste for running on alchohol.

In the US where Detroit is, tens of millions live in the snow belt, which means normal winter temperatures from -10F to -50F in the contiguous 48 states.
Up here in the winter in below zero, truckers often to usually leave their trucks running all night. Starting a diesel in winter is nasty.
A battery powered car in winter. fine if you want to drive a car around the block, that way one will not have far to go to get another car to pull the electric car home.
Bob

StephenRae · 22 Jun 2004, 12:17 (Ref:1011976)

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulSands
and Raleigh Choppers...used to work a treat for me 35 years ago

Paul we haven't yet met but didn't we have a chat about levering you into a single seater...methinks the 'chopper' has been neglected of late. That sounds bad but you know what I mean!!!!

PaulSands · 22 Jun 2004, 16:15 (Ref:1012270)

Thers a new version out now...you can get em in halfords but they've removed the suicide gearshift from the centre of the frame

Mike_Wooshy · 16 Aug 2004, 17:19 (Ref:1068364)

hyrdrogen the fuel of the future or we all start brewing our own alcholol and run of that.

Al Weyman · 16 Aug 2004, 20:44 (Ref:1068580)

I have LPG it on a Range Rover, I was thinking of trying to fit it on my Camaro race car, I have some tanks and bits and pieces. Would this be viable, I don't know, what are the implications and effects on a high performace engine running on Propane, would the MSA allow this, I have two tanks that I could make quick release so refuelling at the track would not be a problem. Alternately I have a gas pump and could refuel that way. I know some guy was or is running in the BTCC but that is a relitively small highly stressed engine where as I will be using a low stressed 5.8 V8 and a few BHP lost running on gas would neither be here or there. Also if I did it I would probably set it up to run gas only not dual fuel to eleviate complications and save weight.

Is it a viable idea or just silly and more trouble than it is worth. My 3.9 Range Rover seems to pull well on it, likes a bit of advance but no problem.

StephenRae · 17 Aug 2004, 17:21 (Ref:1069511)

I heard, a while ago that a significant number of people per year become eligible for a 'Darwin Award' by blowing themselves up with their DIY gas conversions...keep us posted Al!

Al Weyman · 18 Aug 2004, 07:47 (Ref:1070183)

DOne properly it is safe, have you ever seen the drop of petrol in an uptrned bean can experiment, that stuff can be just as leathal as any gas. I just want to know if there is a limit to the amount of gas you can get into the thing purely by presurisation of the cylinder, that is what I reckon could be the problem with a big engine.

StephenRae · 18 Aug 2004, 08:09 (Ref:1070215)

Al..I'm sure you are correct if 'done properly'.
I should think the powers that be wouldn't be keen to allow anything that had not been previously approved.
If you were to force the stuff in under pressure wouldn't you fall foul of the equivalence rules applied to turbochargers?

1200Datto27 · 18 Aug 2004, 08:48 (Ref:1070248)

Mike,

I think that the main issues of using Hydrogen are that:
1, It costs an absolute fortune at the moment to produce, transport and store (cryogenic tempretures needed)
2, It needs a lot of electricity to make hydrogen.
3, due to the tempretures, pressures and flammability of hydrogan, companies do not trust "average" people to be able to safely handle refuelling a car properly.

I recall reading in a BMW magazine (i think) that they have a number of Hydrogen refueling station in Germany, that are completely robotic in there operation, and need around 15 minutes to refuel a car.

DanJR1 · 18 Aug 2004, 10:14 (Ref:1070317)

dont worry. i recently read a science magazine and in canada (if i remember correct) they have a crude oil plant that produces oil from waste, especially turkeys. i no it sounds weird but apprently it produces oil by compression of waste or someting along those lines. now theres plans to build many more of these oil plants. this is no joke! search for "oil from tukeys" on google.co.uk

Al Weyman · 18 Aug 2004, 19:25 (Ref:1070809)

No the pressure would not be that great to cause a forced induction effect, wow you need a stack of pressure for that, I think the powers need to have a more open approach to alternate fuels for the future of the sport. The great thing about running on gas is there are virtually none (if any) Co2 emissions as I found when I put my old Range Rover in for an MoT. There is also no carbon deposits in the cylinder head area ad the oil will come out the same colour as it went in after months of use.