Part-timers - welcome or not ?

[GoThatWay]

Hi - My main interest in motorsport is in competing. If however I'm going to an event as a spectator, then I'm very happy to offer my services as a marshal; partly just to help out, partly to see life from the other side. But I'd rather not have to spend the whole meeting on post, which seems to be the general expectation when you volunteer - and I know that I'm not alone amongst competitors and spectators in that. I admire and am extremely grateful for the dedication and commitment of you folk who form the core of the marshalling cohort, it's just not for me to that extent.

The only issues with part-timers that I can see are :
1) swapping on/off duty would obviously have to take place at convenient times in the event (likely to be lunchtime in many cases - half a day's duty would be fine as far as I'm concerned)
2) the need to brief part-timers who are not on post at the start of the event
3) part-timers are likely to be less experienced
4) some more administration would be involved

What's your view - do you perhaps only want "proper" marshals on your post anyway, would it be too much of a distraction, ... ?

[Peter Harding]

Rather a challenging question and I am hoping to see others views on this. As we need more bodies this seems like an avenue to explore but, as you say, there are problems. Most of those you mention are not insummountable but we would need the same number of "afternoon" people as "mornings"

If the MSA steward was happy with numbers at beginning of day, what would happen if PM people didn't show.
We often have drivers at 2 day meetings racing on one and marshalling on other but that is a whole day. (and they can get a signature)

Watching for others views with great anticip.......a....t......i........o........n.

[Stephen Green]

That's an interesting point and one I'm not sure how to answer.

Yes we are short of marshals and at some meetings that shortage is desperate, but would having part time marshals create more problems than it helps solve?

The problems as I see them are that assuming for a minute you are able to only do the morning as a marshal, when your stint is over it may leave the post undermanned and mean the Observer having to redeploy people to other jobs. This would cause a certain amount of disruption but nothing that is unsurmountable. So I guess in answering my own thoughts, it would be better to have someone for half the day rather than not at all.

Let me ask a question: Assuming it were a two day meeting, would you then be prepared to spend the Saturday as a marshal and the Sunday as a spectator? The reason I ask is that for two day meetings it is always the Saturday that has the fewer marshals. This is for many reasons not the least that some have to work on a Saturday! However, if you were able to do a whole day on a Saturday it would be a huge help.

[Stephen Green]

Peter and I must have posted at the same time as we both have similar views Let me ask another question, partly raised by Peter. As a competitor, would another member of your team be able to cover the half a day you can't? In other words lets say you do the morning and your team member the afternoon. This would mean the post is not undermanned and you get the chance to spectate for half the day!!!

[Nadine J Lewis]

We often have people turning up for the afternoon only - due to work commitments. Also as we have a walkabout in the morning for novice marshals in the afternoon they then go out on post.
As someone who does the allocation for Oulton Park it is certainly easier to have extras in the afternoon than people leaving at lunchtime. Some people inevitably have to leave early on occasions due to work commitments and normally I try to place them somewhere where they can get out the circuit during a session if necessary and inform the I.O. or observer on that post - who then man accordingly.
I certainly would want anyone to come along and help out at anytime, but would rather it was for a full morning or afternoon than a part of either.

[Alastair]

If you only want to marshal part time on post because you want to see and meet other competitors, why not consider an off track job, such as Paddock, Assembly, Pits etc? You can talk with drivers, look at their cars etc. and still marshal.

If this then enabled you to do a full day it may release other marshals from these jobs to go on post when numbers are short.

Just a thought!

[Stephen Green]

Good idea Alastair

[Nick Brown]

i like gothatway am a driver and marshal (trainee)although i'm quite happy on or off the track,i did'nt qualify for a sundays racing one weekend at Pembrey so raced on sat and swept up/pushed cars on sunday thats how i got started, (my thanks to Peter Harding).Marshaling a half day is certainly a short term solution to the shortage of us but i think we should look at the root cause and tackle the problem from there,i've tried several times to get some of the fomula vee boys to give it a try but so far without success.I have changed the way i race and am far more appreciative of marshals after i've seen the "other side" of the fence, i'm also looking forward to a long career in marshaling and more.

[blueflagger]

Over here in the States we are so short of marshals that sometimes events can't start until teams volunteer crew members to help us on on the banks.

On one hand, we have spent a lot of precious time training a person who then goes back to the race car but on the other, we have created a number of converts. When money gets tight or work cuts into car prep time too often, these drivers and crew members become full-time marshals.

Face it, we have a tendency to get new marshals who don't last more than a couple of weekends or a season anyway. This way, if you can't convince him to marshal again, at least you know there is a driver in the ranks who has been on the banks. And then you can bribe him to bring you coffee or chocolate during his off sessions.

[racerkeke]

Here we have a requirement that novice drivers take one day of marshal training. Some of them decide to stay on the "green bit" with us or come back later when they run out of driving money, but all get a sense of what we do and why. I remember calling a particular driver for blocking coming into our turn, and the (novice driver) flagger turned to me and exclaimed, "How did you know he was blocking?" When I explained, she shamefacedly said that she'd always thought she was being so subtle when she tried that! She is now one of our best local sedan racers, carries a "thanks workers" sticker on her car, and always gives us a big wave at the end of sessions. She doesn't block, either. I consider that last the real victory.

keke

[craig hope]

as an incident marshal it must be better to have an extra set of hands for a half day than not at all.
if the post is short of people it takes the pressure of the others for a while.. you never know if they enjoy the morning they may not want to go and watch, but stay and help

[Stevespurr]

My sons girlfriend marshals on the start line so when she is not required for a morning session she joins us on the bank, then in the afternoon goes to her main duty. She is gaining experiance on the bank and also doing her main job on the start line. It must be better for someone to do this than just hang arround getting bored !

[GoThatWay]

Thanks for the responses. Speaking for myself, I would normally be happy to be at the meeting for any pre-start briefings and to offer my services for either the morning or the afternoon. I agree that it would be easier for marshalling duties in paddock/assembly, but it's also good to get to see the action at track/hill-side. I suspect that if the option were to be available and publicised, you might get a lot of takers.

Again for myself, I very rarely get to anything other than a one-day meetins, so Stephen's question about doing one out of two days wouldn't arise. And as for "other members of my team" - it's a one-man crew !

[Englishman]

Stephen and I have exchanged a couple of notes on trying to recruit new blood into the marshalling fraternity. The main theme of these was the need to "set the bait, then get them hooked". Part Time marshals may be one form of this "bait".

Whilst it will certainly add complications to the organisation, both on the bank and in race control, it would provide people with a taste of what marsahlling is all about. Clearly it would have to be carefully managed (not all meeting would be suitable (e.g.FIA)), and also circuits may have some concerns (Is it entry on the cheap?

Personally I think it's an idea worth exploring.

Want to discuss more? Catch me at the GP!!!

[Woolley]

Very interesting question, and I'm not sure there's only one answer. It depends on the venue, the marshal and the numbers available.

Short of numbers, several people accompanying drivers (or the drivers themselves) can assist for part of the day while not otherwise involved? Yes please.

Regular marshal can only make part day sometimes (always? may work that day) Yes please again.

"I might be interested, can I do a part day while I'm here to see if I think I want to take it up?" Come along and join us, but you probably won't do any real marshalling because there's limited opportunity for training, but just being on the bank you'll learn something and may get hooked. Yes we'll take you a couple of times, after that I need to see commitment else it's possible you could become a liability. Come on the days you can do a full day, and once you've gained experience, we'll take you for the part days too, probably.

Spectator who wants to get closer for a bit of time? No thanks.

Really a case of take each application on merit. I'd hate to be in a position where we're swapping all the time like an American football team.

[Stuart Hill]

very interesting question and even more intriguing answers.

so my thoughts???

any extra marshals are good marshals unless they are just there to spectate. Sorry, can't and won't be allowed to do both.

Driver offering their time??? more than welcome if only to give another outlook on events on track to the "experienced marshals.

Part-Timers ??? again depends on the venue..... but if the numbers allow, then more than welcome if only to "dangle-the-bait". who knows who might actually get to enjoy what we do?

The only time I would object to "non-marshals" being on the bank is when that is the only way the event will happen.. ie: "Attention Paddock, get your mates out or this meeting shuts down" This would mean people being 'press-ganged' into marshalling which is counterproductive. The marshals would be uneasy as would the 'volunteers'.

I would rather, and have done so, run a meeting below the MSA mannings levels but with experienced and dedicated personnel on each post. I believe that Mallory last weekend was a good example of quality over quantity. (well done to all from all reports. )

I'll take anyone as a marshal with me but would much rather they 'want' to be there as opposed to being 'coerced'

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally posted by crazystu


The only time I would object to "non-marshals" being on the bank is when that is the only way the event will happen.. ie: "Attention Paddock, get your mates out or this meeting shuts down" This would mean people being 'press-ganged' into marshalling which is counterproductive. The marshals would be uneasy as would the 'volunteers'.

Would just like to second this opinion.

Without going into details, I've seen the effects that this syndrome can have. It's an absolute recipe for resentment, a bad reputation for the sport and for the venue but worst and most unforgivably a greatly increased risk of injury or fatality.

Having volunteers (part time or not) is the only way you can be sure you get people who actually want to do the job and therefore care how well it's done.

[blueflagger]

I disagree. This is how our local bike club started out years ago and now they have developed a very strong worker base. Yes, there was a lot of turnover in the early years, but gradually some people discovered that they'd rather work on corners than wrench on their friend's bike or they didn't want to dislocate their shoulder again, etc. They haven't had to canvass the paddock for workers in years now.