Will MS's Success Taint others Careers?

[Hungary 89]

I made this point in another thread a few weeks back it was a little off the topic so quickly got swamped by more relevant comments but I am interested in other peoples thoughts

If Micheal were to retire for arguments sake at the end of this year as World Champion would you consider the careers of the likes of Kimi and Montoya to be tainted by the fact that they haven't become world champion whilst he was racing.

Micheal has raced against Mansell, Piquet, Prost and most significantly Senna and clearly appeared capable of beating them in some cases in inferior equipment In other words he demonstrated he was capable of beating the best in the buisness while he was racing (obviously we cannot compare him to Fangio or Clarke as he never had the oportunity to race them)

I feel that none of the current crop have shown the same degree of competitiveness relative to Micheal (accepting that a number of them haven't had the equipment to do so)

I honestly believe that unless he is beaten before he retires any future success will be tainted by the argument
"Ah well they wouldn't have done that if Micheal was still Racing"

PS for those who don't know me it may be worth pointing out that I am not a Schumacher fan in fact I don't really like him at all but there is no doubt in my mind that he is the best in the buisness right now

[006_007]

Originally posted by Hungary 89
I made this point in another thread a few weeks back it was a little off the topic so quickly got swamped by more relevant comments but I am interested in other peoples thoughts

If Micheal were to retire for arguments sake at the end of this year as World Champion would you consider the careers of the likes of Kimi and Montoya to be tainted by the fact that they haven't become world champion whilst he was racing.

Micheal has raced against Mansell, Piquet, Prost and most significantly Senna and clearly appeared capable of beating them in some cases in inferior equipment In other words he demonstrated he was capable of beating the best in the buisness while he was racing (obviously we cannot compare him to Fangio or Clarke as he never had the oportunity to race them)

I feel that none of the current crop have shown the same degree of competitiveness relative to Micheal (accepting that a number of them haven't had the equipment to do so)

I honestly believe that unless he is beaten before he retires any future success will be tainted by the argument
"Ah well they wouldn't have done that if Micheal was still Racing"

PS for those who don't know me it may be worth pointing out that I am not a Schumacher fan in fact I don't really like him at all but there is no doubt in my mind that he is the best in the buisness right now

I do not believe future talents accomplishments will be tainted by MS achievements if he retires before someone else takes over.

MS essentially took over AFTER all the other champions that you mentioned left the sport. How many world driving champions has Schumacher beat when he has won his championships?

Will anyone else reach the records that MS has been setting? Probably not. At least not in the next 40 years.....

Either way MS is an incredible talent, and I take great pleasure in watching him create history. I will also point out I enjoyed 1986 when we had 3 drivers at the last race of the season in with a chance of winning the championship. OH yeah, 1 of them became a 4 time champ, 1 of them a 3 time champ, and the 3rd a 1 time champ.......

[Kicking-back]

Michael has had a bigger reliability advantage than any of the other greats and he's had more consecutive years of the best car too.

[gttouring]

Well all that (reliability and best car/team) go with the champion... after all the driver just shines the greater achievment of the team
schumi is IMHO now the greatest (as is eveident in his front row starts and fast race laps) F1 driver ever. and for a long time will be stll.
how much has his unbelievable and incredible achievements and along with ferrari as his chosen squad have been ever criticised and compared to Senna and maclaren, or the williams assault over the years....
it is Ferrari the real marque of excellence and Ferrari's chosen weapon was shumacher.
for good reason the best team wanted the best driver- or best driver wanted the best potential team...
or chicken and egg?

[grumpy1]

Most people know my thoughts about MS and Ferrari but there is no way anyone can tarnish his achivements.We must always keep in mind that when MS started at Ferrari the team was no where.Together they built it to what it is today untouchable this year.As for whether his success will affect others is hard to say.The only cloud could be over Rubans but one would be harsh to speak ill of him.
MS is one of the greatest ever and will be remebered as such and poor old Rubans wrong place wrong time.
As for Kimi,Alonso,Webber etc their future is in their hands not MS or anyone else.We will remember them when the time comes for who they are and what they achived.

The Grumpy1

[Gt_R]

There's little doubt that MS now rank among the top few greatest ever to race in F1.

People could try put down the achievemnt as down to having the best car or an incompetent rival teams, but they clearly refuse to give some thoughts "Did MS make rival drivers look normal?". Also, people neglect the achievemnt MS made with inferior cars...but only when he had the best cars..which is sad.

To put logic ahead of favouritism, Michael has proved himself to be right up with the best ever in business. That's something nobody could take away.

How about the future generations? The immediate group of upcomers have not beaten MS consistently nor show the ability to pose a huge challenge as yet. But there's still time...Machinery isn't the excuse..they could put a good fight in a bad machinery and that will seperate them from their peers.

[climb]

Of course it would be far better if someone beats MS sooner or later; but if MS retires ne day, nobody can be found guilty for that.
The sports history is not made by the absentees, thus the next WDC will deservedly bejewel his career.

[ljakse]

It will be sad for me if he leaves before he is beaten few more times, but:

Originally posted by 006_007
MS essentially took over AFTER all the other champions that you mentioned left the sport. How many world driving champions has Schumacher beat when he has won his championships?

None - that didn't beat him.

[Mal]

The other drivers careers are more likely to be tainted if Michael does not retire for a few years, as in this situation the record books will show that they didnt win much.

There are several drivers worthy of being world Champion in the right car, but only the best can be world champion in virtually any car. You may laugh, but if Michael changed to any of the top six or so teams, I guarantee that within two seasons he would be challeging for the championship.

You only have to look as far as Moto GP to see how this happens when a truly great driver / rider is in the field.

[Hungary 89]

Just to Clarify

In his early Career Micheal Raced against the acknowledged Greats of the day and IMHO clearly showed the ability to beat them. I have Never felt that Micheal would not have been World Champion if Senna was still racing

But as the seasons roll by toward the end of his career I don't see any of his successors showing signs of putting to gether a consitant enough challenge to beat Micheal

That is not to say that the first superstar to arrive after his retirement will be tainted as he will never have had the opertunity to Race him so no comparison can be made

[Mattracer]

To say that others will be tainted with infreririty if they don't win the WDC while MS is still driving is perhaps harsh. The Ferrari team has had a period of tremendous stability since the late '90s with only the no2 driver cvahnging from Irvine to barrichello. It should also be said that MS won his first WDC and subsequent others with not other former or current WDCs racing at the time.

[Liz]

Would you say that TGF's career was tainted because he never became "World Champion" while Senna was racing? Didn't think so.

P.S. Why can't anybody spell M I C H A E L?

[Hungary 89]

No but as I said earlier MichAEl clearly looked capable of it, If Senna hadn't tragically died at Imola I still think that MS would have been a good bet for the championship that year.
Where as IMHO none of the current crop have looked capable of beating Michael to the championship even last year I always had the feeling that Michael would eventually come out on top

PS Spelling has never been my strong point

[Attila]

TGF is clearly the hardest working and most motivated driver in the field. I am sure that his natural speed is fading but he more than makes up with his work ethics and driving intelligence that comes from experience. I am afraid to say that in my opinion he is evern faster than ever and does not look like somebody close to retiering. About the current drivers, I am sure that Alonso, Kimi or Montoya are now naturally faster than TGF in the same car, but TGF is always perfect with his set up choice and can be fast in the crutial moments. As long as he enjoys it, he will stay the best. Actually this is all very sad, because I would like to see somebody else win a WDC in the upcoming years :-).

Offtopic: Hungary89 just curious, why do you have this name?? That is the time you left Hungary or... ??

[Adam43]

Liz has a good point (the first one) Schuamcher didn't overlap much with the previous generation. I don't think that it will ultimately detract too much. Although, undeniably, it would be great for one of them to win against Michael. Some of the drivers do feel this now. I think it was Button who said he wants to win the WC before Michael retires.

[garcon]

I don't think it'll taint their careers as such. All it means is that when we look back at their careers they won't have won as many races and WDCs as they would have done if Schumacher hadn't been around.

But, as demonstrated by Liz's point on the overlap of Senna and Schumacher, that's kind of a circular argument...

[GreenAdam]

what happend to Mark webber in the first practice 1 this morning

[garcon]

Very good Adam - you've found out how to reply to a thread instead of starting a new one each time.

Lesson 2 is finding a relevant thread...

[Kicking-back]

Ha ha.

[Aysedasi]

Give the guy a brand new pin (that one's worn out)........

[ljakse]

Originally posted by garcon
Very good Adam - you've found out how to reply to a thread instead of starting a new one each time.

Lesson 2 is finding a relevant thread...

AAAAAhhhhhhaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sorry...

[Knowlesy]

Originally posted by ljakse
AAAAAhhhhhhaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did I just hear Alan Partridge? :confused:

Will drivers be tainted if they win a title without Schuey being around? No, I don't think so at all.

Schuey doesn't keep getting labelled a rank also ran just because Senna was killed just before he took his first title.

[krt917]

Careers peak at different times. The next great takes over from the previous one and creates their own history. Often the next great doesn't get to take it to the last great because of death or retirement. I'm thinking of Moss-Clark, Stewart-Lauda, Senna-Schumacher (though perhaps less so in that case, we were beginning to see it), and it hasn't detracted from any of the aformentioned careers. I'm sure the current grid would love to beat Schuey, but I think the competition will be good after he retires and create the next great.

[Armco Bender]

what happend to Mark webber in the first practice 1 this morning

His practise was tainted by Michael Schumacher.

[Hungary 89]

Originally posted by knowlesy
Did I just hear Alan Partridge? :confused:

Will drivers be tainted if they win a title without Schuey being around? No, I don't think so at all.

Schuey doesn't keep getting labelled a rank also ran just because Senna was killed just before he took his first title.

Sorry to labour the point folks but the reason that Michaels career hasn't been tainted by Senna's Death is the fact that Michael was clearly on a par with Senna at the time I think that there is absolutely no reason to believe that Schumacher couldn't have won the title that year if Senna had lived

In Short Michael's relative performance to Senna was way closer than any of his current rivals are to him

My feeling is as it stands at the moment the only way we are going to see a fresh world champion is if Michael retires

That was not my feeling Before Imola 1994