Checking Cars

[caz]

Are the cars that race, checked to make sure the engine isnt to big for the car by some one. How do the drivers know that someone hasnt put a bigger engine in the car??
Who checks the car. Do the cars get checked during or at the end of the racing season, and will they get checked after the brands hatch meeting??

[Cryos]

Caz:

1. Cars get checked in Scruiteneering.

2. Generaly you will know what type of engine a car runs (most scruitineers have been around long enough and know what engine should be in which car, unless its a 205 with a 1.9 engine :P)

3. Cars can be checked after race meetings if a complain is launched or the cars details do not match its increased preformance on the day.

[caz]

so do they get checked at the end of the season??

[peespeed]

It depends, some engines are sealed by scrutineers during the season and have to be checked within 45 days, some are sealed at the end of the season and then checked before championship reults can be finalised.

[Cryos]

ITs more one make championships like the seat cupras that end of season checking applies to ....

[caz]

shouldnt all the top cars be checked, it would be nice to know that your favourite driver has won the championship fair and square, and get rid of any bad sportmanship cheating..Just my silly idea!

[Cryos]

Yes all cars should be checked at the end of a season, however that requires alot of time from Motorsport Ireland or MSA scruiteneers, therefore time = money meaning that it will cost either the driver or the organisers money for checking the cars are what they are which is why its not done in lower budget formulas or rallyesports such as rallycross.

[imull]

isnt there some sort of tool that makes checking the swept volume pretty easy. Something that goes into the plug hole from memory.

[mr_atspeed]

I thought that all the top three stockhatch car have been checked in previous years??

[Matti Alamaki]

Originally posted by rxie
Yes all cars should be checked at the end of a season, however that requires alot of time from Motorsport Ireland or MSA scruiteneers, therefore time = money meaning that it will cost either the driver or the organisers money for checking the cars are what they are which is why its not done in lower budget formulas or rallyesports such as rallycross.

Rxie all top stock hatch cars are checked for eligibility in Ireland every year. That's engine & box. This is done before results are official every year.

[Cryos]

news to me, ive never heard of that and its not in the green book either. but anyways Learn something new everyday

[mr_atspeed]

Originally posted by Matti Alamaki
Rxie all top stock hatch cars are checked for eligibility in Ireland every year. That's engine & box. This is done before results are official every year.

Will the same idea spread to the british rallycross, bet it wont.
What do other drivers feel, should it be mandatory for the top three to be checked at the end of the year. I think they should.
Bet we see some slower cars if thats the case at the last meeting...

[bigted]

So, mr_atspeed where do you think all the cheating is going on? which part of the cars?

[mr_atspeed]

Think..I dont think..I know...

[Cryos]

AS always bigted, cars running Limo's where the rules say no, different pistons for compression, different clutches etc...

i belive the most recent irish one was the 205's running 1.9 engines

[RoyG]

Don’t get me going on this one!!

Since the inception of Stock Hatch in 2000 eligibility checking has been nothing short of a bad joke.

Back in 2000 I was asked to take the head off my engine 10 minutes after the end of the Final, declined to avoid a warped head, was sealed and subsequently checked (fee £95!!). The ONLY checks done were bore & stroke!

To my knowledge there’s only ever been one driver who was penalised and that was because he was daft enough to (allegedly) believe a verbal statement from a previous Eligibility Scrutineer rather than printed rules and amendments.

There are plenty of “tweaks” to improve the competitiveness of a car that can easily be checked without stripping– e.g. different final drive (need a stick of chalk and a tape measure), “optimised” cam (need micrometer and 360 protractor), LSD (need a bit of grass, a bit of tarmac, 5000rpm and a dumped clutch!), management system from another model (need eyes and a Data Book), high-octane fuel etc. etc.

LSDs have been occasionally checked, but a Quaife diff. or even a plate diff with no preload is impossible to check just by jacking up one side and spinning a wheel.

Camber checking has been done, but with a cut down (“to check Minis”) Mickey Mouse camber gauge applied NOT across a vertical diagonal with cars on a broken concrete surface. D’oh!!

Virtually all the present cars are probably illegal in some small way – e.g. the rules state that “if it doesn’t say you can, you can’t”. How many cars have still got a full wiring loom in?

Final thought – it’s no f*cking good whatsoever checking cars at the end of the season – anyone in their right mind will have taken off all the cheats by then!! What’s needed is continuous, high-profile spot checks throughout the year – made by someone with at least half a technical clue

Told you not to get me started!!!

That's better!

[mr_atspeed]

I am a eligibility scrutineer at our local short circuit track, circuit racers take the **** out of these types of tracks, but, there are not many cars that race for long, that arn't stripped and checked. just the sight of me being at a meeting sets all the tongues wagging. thats all it needs, the threat of a random check, the formula police's itself. (nearly).
one formula is even checked to make sure the wheelbase hasnt been stretched side to side (oval trick). There is a tolerance of 1 inch..
Give me 1 hour on some of these "legal" cars, just 1 hour then we will see some close racing, thats for sure

[bucko]

hey now there is one thing i could say about the mincross boys when i used to race with the likes of phil , richard wakling ,that they did often checks and at the end of the season there was full strip downs and if someone looked like they where cheating mid season they where sealed and c hecked wether they liked it or not hence it was well controlled mind you that when they where had there own committee and it was 5 years ago right aren't i PHIL ,

[peespeed]

What also has to be remembered with the 205 GTi XU5J engine is that as standard there are 2 different engines, one with 90bhp and the other has 105bhp, what one do you think the quick boys run??

RoyG, do the MSA not pay the fee if your engine is found to be legal, over here if you are legal MI or the competitor that protesed you pays the fee,if illegal you pay the costs

[RoyG]

Originally posted by peespeed
RoyG, do the MSA not pay the fee if your engine is found to be legal, over here if you are legal MI or the competitor that protesed you pays the fee,if illegal you pay the costs

Because I refused to strip the head at the meeting I had to pay for the inspection!

[Widget]

Most of the time it dosen't take an idiot to work out whos is cheating and who aint!! (example) If someone spends the first 4 rounds struggling to get onto the back row of the B final. then all of a sudden gets a mysterious burst of speed and never qualifies lower than the front row of the A final seems a bit strange to me. Heres another thing that is confusing me. how can the top 10 stock hatches go round pretty much nose to tail all last year. And now 1 car be 10 seconds (sometimes more) in front after 4 laps!!! Bearing in mind there are 2 other cars using the same type of engine!!! surley these 3 cars should go round nose to tail! unless someone is cheating!!!

[PukKa]

In the 3 years before winning the Minicross championship in 1999, I was sealed & stripped 5 times by the MSA Scrutineers,Once Mid-Season and the Cam was removed and sent to Piper Cams to have a Full-lift,Overlap,
and Duration Check.Returned only 4 days before a Race!!
I was paid £20 towards gasket costs,by the MDA, If this had been carried Swiftune Engine Builders then, it would of cost in Excess of £700 Strip/ Rebuild in Labour charges.
It appears now in Stockhatch/Jnr/Minicross,There are a lot Professional Built Engines/Drivers (has anyone asked for a Godfrey/Bardy/Gollop Engine?)The whole thing gone on Unchecked and Is out of Control, Low Cost Formula`s Ha!!
I`ve looked at some of these cars,AND THEY DON`T COMPLY WITH THE CURRANT REGS,With Modified Looms, Incomplete Dashboards,Heaven Knows what Cams/Valves/Pistons/Gearboxes.
The BRDA/MSA Have got to be seen Acting on this,If Winning By unchecked Cheating carries on, WHAT`S THE POINT?

[winnie]

I can't believe that a proffesional engine builder is going to build a 'dodgy' engine beacause of the potential damage to their reputation. If any-one is going to cheat with engines then it will be the self builder who skims the head or changes cam. If you watch the quick cars warming their tyres (whats the point) before a race then you will see both front wheels spinning together. This shouldn't happen without a LSD.
Roy, why don't you offer yourself as an eligibility scrutineer as you obviously know the tricks.

[RoyG]

Originally posted by winnie
Roy, why don't you offer yourself as an eligibility scrutineer as you obviously know the tricks.

Because I still want to race - though it's looking less likely I'll be in Rallycross next year.

[TWIGLET]

Not you as well Roy, where are you going?