Honda Says No

[mountainstar]

Honda says no to production based engines:

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101332

[GP Racer]

Nice of you to keep up with the IRL's engine woes mountainstar...

But there are plenty of positives in that article , and much to your chagrin, this won't be the end of the IRL. As a matter of fact, I expect that in the end, the league will be faced with a tough decision: do they stay with specialised race engines, and have 2 or 3 manufacturers, or go back to production and have 2-3 or maybe even 4 manufacturers?

Either way, the IRL will move on...

[BootsOntheSide]

Note that the article there contains 3 picutres - one of GMs Joe Negri and one of Honda's Robert Clarke are both captioned, the 3rd shows a Cheever car with flames at the back. At first glance this looks like an engine failure, but a closer glance shows the missing rear wing...

Both the production engine and fine-tuned engine options could lead to a real improvement in the championship's support, excitement and parity in 2007, with or without Honda. Just because one championship suffered (and even then, more in the short term) from losing engine suppliers doesn't mean another championship would.

[mountainstar]

I don't know. The article reports an $18 million subsidy to Andretti Green from Honda. That kind of cash is not easy to replace.

One worrying aspect was the Barnhart quotes in which he angrily denied having any control over the direction of the series. That has to be worrying to anyone either in the series or wanting to join.

"As for GM, Barnhart remains perturbed with how Doug Duchardt, the head of GM Racing, spoke of the IRL’s problems in a teleconference with national media last month. Duchardt said the IRL’s declining television ratings, its still-low attendance at races, and a general lack of value in Tony George’s series were at the root of the manufacturer’s decision to depart. Duchardt also said Honda, and Toyota to a lesser extent, have driven up the cost of participating.

The latter got all eight of Barnhart’s cylinders firing.

“A good portion of that we have zero control over,” he claimed, citing team subsidies in general and Honda’s estimated $18 million commitment to Andretti Green Racing in particular. “How can I control that? How can I stop that?”"

To me the chief executives in a company are ultimately responsible for the success of such company and for an executive like Barnhart to just throw it all to wind just floors me.

Yes GP Racer the IRL does have a hard decision to make, but the problem is that the manufacturers, due to their dollars propping everything up, now have too much control and influence. One only has to look to recent motor racing history to see how destructive this can be. Group C and the old style DTM are two good examples.

[Snrub]

Recall from an article that was posted earlier that Toyota is not happy with Honda's subsidization of all of their teams. Toyota wants to have only 1 or 2 subsidized teams. It seems to me that yet again Honda is more committed. If the IRL is smart and they have to chose between Honda and Toyota, they'll pick Honda. Recall that the reason this impass is even occuring is a result of the virtually the same delima in CART. It sounds like TG may be willing to keep the uncommitted/less capable GM and money grubbing Toyota over the fairer and committed Honda.

Then again, everyone seems to be craving for more open engine formulas and I don't believe Toyota and GM have a really comparable displacement V8. As GP Racer suggested in another thread, why not work something out like in Grand Am where everyone can run different engines and Honda could run a higher reving 3.5L V6? I can see in that scenerio that Honda might be concerned that they have to start at square one and their competition already has something to develop.

In defense of mountainstar I think there's valid reasons for a someone who's not as interested in discussing IRL racing to be interested in either the engine choice or the wrangling with manufacturers. It doesn't mean that it's a purely partisan post.

[GP Racer]

[QUOTE=Snrub]Then again, everyone seems to be craving for more open engine formulas and I don't believe Toyota and GM have a really comparable displacement V8. As GP Racer suggested in another thread, why not work something out like in Grand Am where everyone can run different engines and Honda could run a higher reving 3.5L V6? I can see in that scenerio that Honda might be concerned that they have to start at square one and their competition already has something to develop.QUOTE]

I got pretty well hammered for that view from plenty of "engine" guys Snrub, but like you, I think it would be a great way to go.

Open things up, and let companies play to their strengths. For instance, Porsche has a wonderful flat 6, the Americans have arguably the best V-8s out there, and the Japanese have some fantastic 4 bangers, etc., etc.. If they were allowed to race the engines that they are known for, instead of having to build engines that they really have no use for, and build them to IRL specs, then whats the problem? I'm quite sure more manufacturers would be interested in the series, just as they are in GARRA.

Right now, you just can't argue with GARRA's phenomenal growth, and part of that is the affordable, anything goes, engine package that they have.

I envision a Porsche Flat 6 in a Dallara, a Pontiac V-8 in a G-Force, and a Ferrari V-12 in a Dallara, going 3 wide down the front straight at Indy! Hmmm, what a dream!

[Hazza]

Hah, then you'd get the "VTR" Phenomon. Where some one that is not Honda/Toyota build something realy great and different (Ie: Ducati V-Twin) and Honda build a better copy (The VTR) and stamp the smaller company into the weeds

[Snrub]

I tend to be against equilancy formulas and frankly I'm not sure that using the GM/Toyota Grand Am or similar engines is a good idea for the IRL, but if the IRL wants to keep all three manufacturers then it might not be the worst thing. If it boils down to keeping the manufacturers happy or destroying the series, the choice isn't too difficult. I think equilancy might work best if the series essentially didn't accept anyone else.