Cost of putting on a Race meeting?

[HoTWire]

Out of a conversation I had yesterday came the questions of how much it actually costs a club to put on a racing meet and where do they recoup their money from?

So, for example how much does it cost for the 750 Motor Club to put an event on at Pembrey? Where does the money go? Where does it come from?

-David

[Adam43]

The simple answer is 'a lot'!

Many thousands. Circuit hire for even Pembrey is the best part of £10K (It is many years since I last 'knew' these things). Then there are the cost of all the other people there - (in no order) organisers, timers, medical, marshals (expenses?), etc... Then there is insurance, which isn't cheap. The cost of adminstration before the event.

Who pays for it? For club racing the competitors (yearly fees, race fees). The circuits get the gate money.

Also, what happens when some races get cancelled. The competitor fees are lost, but the outgoings are still there.

[HoTWire]

Interesting, I'd definatly like to know the other costs, if anyone knows a ballpark figure off the top of their heads. I'd estimated about £30k going out before anything came back in, so don't know if that is close or not. I'm guessing insurance is one of the biggest costs?

[Adam43]

For the smaller circuits I think that £30K may be a little more than is needed.

I am sure someone with more upto date and inside knowledge will be a long soon

[diz]

I think a one day Oulton is approx £25k [2/3 circuit hire fee alone] and something like the FF Festival approx £65k
As Adam says, there are the known in advance costs, e.g MST charge for their timing kit and so much per person plus mileage / accomodation. The only expense that is entry level related is the per capita charges for insurance and permit.
So a poorly supported meeting - entrywise - leads to a loss and one brimming over with entries may make a small profit. On the whole, it is always a gamble for the clubs

[kickstart]

I am sure I read somewhere that for the 750MC their break even point is about 16 - 18 competitors per race and the race entry fees tend to reflect the cost of circuit hire, eg cheaper entry at Mallory but expensive at Brands Hatch. It has always surprised me how much some clubs charge compared with the 750MC.

[Stephen Green]

I guess at the top level 750mc have lower overheads than say BRSCC or BARC. By that I mean premises and full time staff etc.

[Rod Birley]

Somewhere like Lydden is £10,000 (circuit hire, MST costs, MSA permit, insurance, postage, scrutineers, medical team, rescue unit, breakdowns etc) at Brands this would rise to £25,000. Again these figures do not include the relevant clubs overheads, such as premises and staff costs.
With circuit hire and insurance costs set to rise again, it will be interesting to see what the new entry fees will be. The only area where this could be negated is if spectators started turning up in reasonable numbers, by that I mean 1500 to 2000, similar to an oval race meeting. This would generate an income of up to £20,000 which an astute club could negotiate against the circuit hire. BUT this is unlikely to happen, due to all the reasons discussed on other threads.

[Mackmot]

BRSCC have full time staff? I thought they were amateurs.

[Paul Dishman]

Originally Posted by Mackmot

BRSCC have full time staff? I thought they were amateurs.

Full time amateurs, from what I've heard

[b1ackcr0w]

I can't comment on anybody from most of the BRSCC because I just don't know them. However, the SW center which is mostly based around events at Castle Combe have always been faultless in their dealings with me. Not to mention the meetings at Castle Combe seem to be much better ran than many others I've been to.

I'm willing to be contradicted, but shall be rather surprised to. Just wanted to state my twopenneth.

[kickstart]

Circuit owners will have to become a little more realistic when it comes to circuit hire charges because most of the club competitors I know simply will not pay hugely increased race entry fees. It becomes pretty hard to justify to the family when the cost of 1 x 15 min qual and 2 x 20 min races at a decent circuit may already be £350 - £400, if they are set to rise and head towards maybe £500 then despite what Mr Palmer thinks I will be going for a weeks holiday instead and I think many club competitors either will not pay these sorts of prices or could not afford to do so.

[Stephen Green]

The problem with that is the charges the circuits have to pay elswehere don't decrease and so they have no option but to pass on increased charges to you!

[JohnMiller]

Interesting, the price comparison Brands/Lydden.

IIRC the BRSCC SE is doing little at Lydden next year as the drivers have voted with their feet (wheels?) and prefer Brands...

[Rod Birley]

The BRSCC are not planning any meetings at Lydden in 2005. The problem has been their costs compared to other clubs which run there, i.e. entry fees, which are higher due to their staff and premises costs. It is also true that national championships tend to avoid Lydden because they struggle to fill a grid there. Even a well supported championship like the Alfa Romeos only just get into double figures.

[Rod Birley]

It should be noted that both the BARC and BRSCC have full time staff. Both clubs run over 60 meetings a year (too many?), some of which are high profile like Touring cars or the F.3/G.T. package.

[graeme]

I think some of the figures quoted for circuit hire are a little high. Circuit Driver had the actually figures about a year ago for MSV circuits, when they put the prices up, but I've probably thrown it out. IIRC Oulton was in the region of £12k and Cadwell about £8k. Brands was up near £20k, I think.

[Stephen Green]

I think midweek rates are lower than weekends though Graeme

[diz]

Originally Posted by graeme

I think some of the figures quoted for circuit hire are a little high. Circuit Driver had the actually figures about a year ago for MSV circuits, when they put the prices up, but I've probably thrown it out. IIRC Oulton was in the region of £12k and Cadwell about £8k. Brands was up near £20k, I think.

2005 circuit hire prices from MSV as follows:
BH Indy 19,000 (2004 - £18,000)
BH GP 25,000 - no increase on 2004
Oulton Park 16.000 (2004 - £14,500)
Snetterton 9,500 (2004 - £9,000)
Cadwell Park 9,250 (2004 - £8,850)

[Adam43]

5.5%, 0%, 10.3%, 5.5%, 4.5% increase. What is inflation?
Although maybe that will allow the circuits to make some money (I'm not up on the curretn financial profits of the tracks).

[gadgit]

It makes a test a bargain then ?

All morning at Mallory for £80. Provided loads don't turn up its open pit !

Even Palmers test dates are good value for a half day at Brands for £135, most if not all his half days are £135 at all his new tracks he's got. not to bad ?

gadgit.

[Rod Birley]

When you hire a circuit all you get is the tarmac for the day. Everything else is extra: permit, insurance, timekeepers, officials, programme, awards (garlands/trophies), breakdown trucks, rescue unit, and postage costs. You may even end up with an extra bill if the tarmac is damaged in any, such as fuel spillage or lots of oil.

[kickstart]

For some reason everything is expensive in the UK - testing at Brands for half a day normally means 2 sessions of about 40 mins and you can guarantee that at least one of them will be curtailed due to an accident. Testing in France prior to a race meeting on a pukka circuit can cost as little as 40 euro for a whole day with an open pitlane.

[diz]

A point, mentioned in many threads, is that the circuit take the gate. Soccer is often mentioned in the same breath.

I have just been reading in my local rag about Runcorn Halton FC struggling financially -yet again. The Chairman quotes some figures, included in which are :
Hire of Halton Stadium from Halton Council £60,000 + vat pa
Shirt sponsorship deal from Halton Council £12,500 pa [knocked off stadium rental]

Spectator admission, last time I went was £7 to watch Conference North Football - average gate = 200.
Everton played their reserve games there for a couple of seasons with some multi million pound Premiership players on display. The Council must have done a deal there, as admission was only £1 and they got gates as high as 6,000 for games against the likes of Liverpool, but I digress.

What grabbed my attention was "All gate receipts are retained by the council"

So just like club motor racing, where does the money come from to put their matches on? In our case drivers entry fees, in their case sponsorship deals - and as these are not enough, they struggle.

Grass roots soccer, grass roots racing - little difference

[SILVER CLERK]

Originally Posted by Paul Dishman

Full time amateurs, from what I've heard

This comment is not productive !

BRSCC HQ the same as other organising clubs with full time and part time employees give their all for the sport .

The Competitions Manager for example is an International Clerk of the Course with vast experience and knows the sport inside out .

The employees full and part time in the Head Office of BRSCC as with other clubs are experienced,friendly,polite and help drivers and officials to the best of their ability.

A lot of hard and often unrecognised work is put in by regional race secretaries and other volunteer /unpaid chief marshals and officials.

I am sad to see such comments,we should all work together and take the sport forward and cut out the childish comments !!