Max loses patience with team bosses - again...

[Super Tourer]

www.autosport.com

Max Mosley has suggested that the FIA may abandon its efforts to cut costs in Formula 1 due to his frustration with the teams' intransigence. The FIA president hinted at this move in a forcefully worded fax to Minardi boss Paul Stoddart, who had recently questioned the legitimacy of Mosley's cost cutting plans.

Mosley argued that the boycotting of last month's Heathrow meeting by all bar Ferrari, combined with the buy-outs of Jaguar and Jordan by Red Bull and Midland respectively, suggested that there was no longer either a desire or a requirement for the cost cutting debate to continue.

“There are now those in the FIA who question whether further time and effort should be expended in seeking cost reduction in Formula 1. The matter will be discussed by the World Motor Sport Council next month and may well result in the abandonment of these efforts unless or until there is a financial crisis in Formula 1 of the kind which appeared imminent last autumn.”

In a 'broadside' reply to Paul Stoddarts 40 page letter - which you may have read on the FIA site, Max replied.

You are extremely fortunate to have time for this. In fact, I suspect you have a ghost writer, because slightly pompous legalise is not your usual style,” wrote Mosley in the opening paragraph of the fax.

As we all know whilst BE plays poker with the teams, MM plays chess - this strikes me as a clear move to flush out a 'refute' from the teams - the message is clear - 'you appear not to want to cut costs, so we won't bother - this of course heaps the onus and responsibility for the result onto the teams. Coming after the FIA released so much of the proposals into the public domain, suggests this is a 'put up or shut up', from the FIA.

[Kicking-back]

Bluster.

I always say on political matters in F1 "everything will be fine in the end".

It always works out.

[Inigo Montoya]

Just as I suspected. Nobody is really serious about reducing costs. Its a joke, and I agree with Max this time.

[Mike_Wooshy]

just max having a paddy imo so wouldnt worry.

[RWC]

Max chucking a wobbly because the teams don't agree with him.
He should get a life and stop trying to force his pitifully thought out ideas on the sport!!! Al he's done the last few years is **INCREASE** costs for the teams
Have a look at the interview with paul stoddard- He says it costs 20% more to run his team that before the stupid rule changes
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=23462

A superb article!

[DougK]

To me all the cost cutting ideas so far have been a pile of pants!

As I have said before a simple way to cut costs is through the supply of tyres. It EVERY team is limited to a certain number (say 150 sets per year) they cannot over test as they won't have any tryres to race with. Similarly they should be limited to certain amount of engines including testing - again say (40 per year).

These are simple rules to enforce and manage.

Max is just a grumpy guy as he is not getting his own way!

Maybe the FIA should get independant consultants in to look at the issue - the same way as other businesses do. And i mean Independant with no finanical intrest in the sport!

[garcon]

Surely nobody truly independent would have the first idea what they're talking about?

I agree with Max this time. Yes, as Super Tourer points out, there's an agenda behind his apparent loss of patience, but that doesn't alter the fact that he's got a very good point.

As for Max "trying to force his pitifully thought out ideas on the sport", maybe if the teams stepped back from their blinkered self interest for once and actually got round the table and discussed it constructively they'd come up with a package they can all agree to.

[Glen]

Like Damon Hill said when the teams and FIA were meeting at Heathrow "I could sort out F1 in minutes by going into that meeting room with a fire hose."

[garcon]

I think an AK47 might be more effective...

[neil_davidson2]

Originally Posted by garcon

I agree with Max this time. Yes, as Super Tourer points out, there's an agenda behind his apparent loss of patience, but that doesn't alter the fact that he's got a very good point.

As for Max "trying to force his pitifully thought out ideas on the sport", maybe if the teams stepped back from their blinkered self interest for once and actually got round the table and discussed it constructively they'd come up with a package they can all agree to.

Absolutely agree.

The FIA put forward a collection of proposals that the teams decided they didn't like. The FIA then invited the teams to come up with a workable alternative that they all agreed on - that failed for a variety of reasons that may well have been resolved by the application of a fire hose.

And now the teams are baulking again because they don't like the latest set of proposals from the FIA. So what's next then?

I think I'd be frustrated too.

[Snrub]

That is a good link, thanks for posting it RWC. Regardless of potential bias, there are some things that are pretty hard to explain differently from Stoddart's potision.

"Remember, this isn't Paul Stoddart, Minardi boss, holding out the begging bowl, and whining about the cost of running his team, this is Paul Stoddart, representing nine of the ten Formula One teams that will contest the 2005 World Championship season."

"Ferrari really are racing themselves and to their own set of rules," he says.
"Once upon a time, in Formula One, you used to say that second was the first loser. Under the current regulations, in 2005, there will be a new reality, in my view, with second being the true winner."

The fact that Ferrari are paid $35M to test by Bridgestone and the legal issues surrounding going to a single tire supplier are rather damning to Ferrari.

[Pingguest]

Max Mosley should stop introducing more rules which harm the Formula 1. Under his responsibility, the Formula 1 has become less credible.

[Teretonga]

Stoddy's comments in the Pitpass interview actually reveal just how far away from reality Max is. In effect nothing has been achieved. the changes are legally questionable, the cars aren't much slower, if at all, and the teams have spent a fortune in design, research and development to deal with the new regs. They'd have done development anyway, but where's the savings?

[Kicking-back]

The changes to slow the cars have managed to stop them getting quicker, which from a safety point of view is positive.

And while they won't be much slower in qualifying, actual race pace will be a few seconds slower.

[Adam43]

Max is having lunch with a few journos tomorrow, so we should learn some more from the current situation...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Max is having lunch with a few journos tomorrow, so we should learn some more from the current situation...

Doesn't surprise me that Max will be having a few journos for lunch.

[RWC]

Those that haven't read that article i linked will have to do so if you want to have any credibility in this kind of discussion.
I may go through it again and give some quotes if i have time.

[Inigo Montoya]

Its interesting to read Stoddy's side of things. And I genuinely believe that he wants to reduce costs. After all, his team has the most to gain. However...

He'd like us to believe that Ferrari are evil and refuse to agree to the testing ban because they want to, as he likes to say, win everything until 2006. But he's not really putting himself in their shoes.
Limiting the amount of testing time (apparently agreed to at a meeting to which Ferrari was 'accidentally' not invited to), we all know, would effectively tip the testing balance heavily in favour of the Michelin teams, there being more of them. A fact that Minardi, a BStone team, apparently doesn't seem to mind (I assume because the tyres are really built for the Ferraris, in any case). As Stoddart himself points out, it costs them nothing to test, so where is the savings for Ferrari? Why *would* they agree to this?

Would a Ferrari win this season be a hollow one? I'd argue that if Ferrari agrees to the testing ban and loses, then the win by their rival would be a hollow one, artificially manufactured by the rest of the teams.

And I still think it would have hurt noone, had the rest of the manufacturers shown up to listen to Ferrari's latest cost cutting ideas. I guess the soap opera will continue...

[Gabrio]

They'd all better find a way to spend less, before the manifacturers get fed up and leave F1. Meanwhile, costs will have become unbearable and the remaining private teams will go under. Renault and Toyota are already fed up and preparing to leave....

[neil_davidson2]

Originally Posted by RWC

Those that haven't read that article i linked will have to do so if you want to have any credibility in this kind of discussion.

Ok I'll hold my hand up - I only managed the first three pages before I glazed over yesterday evening (having already waded through the 45-page monster!).

I've read the whole thing this morning and still stand by what I originally posted here and also in the thread that highlighted Paul Stoddart's letter. The teams failed to come up with anything workable last year, and although Max got frustrated with them he lost the moral (and legal) high ground when he trampled over the Concorde agreement.

It's easy to condemn Max for imposing poorly thought out regs (I don't like them either) but up until now the teams haven't shown much in the way of an ability to "self-regulate" the sport. Neither side have particularly covered themselves in glory on this one.

It's encouraging to see that nine of the teams appear to have finally got their act together and have started to do what they should have done a year ago, and it's good to see PS acknowledging this. We can only hope that the two sides can come together on this and finally start moving things forward. If Max's latest set of poorly thought out regs have acted as a catalyst to make this happen then maybe he's got what he was looking for all along...

[Marbot]

Interesting Stoddys reason for the cancellation of the December 2004 meeting,that was well timed to say the least,and smacks of pandering to Ferrari.Is it any wonder none of the teams except Ferrari turned up for the last one.And yes i have read the documents.

[N I Tram]

If Ferrari don't like rules which happen to work against the team that's winning, they should be grateful they don't compete in NASCAR (where, as soon as one make of car has an advantage, the others get aerodynamic breaks to catch up), American Football (where the worst teams get first pick of promising youngsters) or, in another way, cricket or rugby (where international matches often clash with domestic ones, so teams with the best domestic players often lose them for much of the season. Rules should be there to keep things close in any sport, and that's going to naturally affect the top team the most. If Ferrari continue to dominate, it won't do them any marketing favours, because so few people will be interested. And no one buys a Ferrari purely due to their current F1 performances.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by N I Tram

If Ferrari don't like rules which happen to work against the team that's winning, they should be grateful they don't compete in NASCAR (where, as soon as one make of car has an advantage, the others get aerodynamic breaks to catch up)

And if the other teams are so pathetic as to need the help of rules to artificially make them compete with the leaders, they should go to NASCAR, where such charity is commonplace

[Glen]

Originally Posted by N I Tram

...If Ferrari continue to dominate, it won't do them any marketing favours, because so few people will be interested. And no one buys a Ferrari purely due to their current F1 performances.

I don't believe that for a minute - their track success must surely help ar sales.

[Gabrio]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

And if the other teams are so pathetic as to need the help of rules to artificially make them compete with the leaders, they should go to NASCAR, where such charity is commonplace

I couldn't agree more with this statement.