PDLR performance vs. "stars"

[lookleft]

Personal Opinion: I didn't actually think PDLR was outstanding, far too many errors. That said, he did finish 4th on merit in his first race for years.

Question: What does it say about the stars that get paid many millions when a teams 2nd tester can come in, at a new track and perform so strongly? Are they worth the money? Has the "market" gone crazy?

What would the top 7 teams pay for a driver pairing - lets exclude Ferrari. Average $15 - $20 mill for a pair?

Now the kicker - what would PDLR (or the like) ask as a retainer and does it represent better value than a $10 million man?

[WebberForWDC]

I think it shows that the way F1 operates with the mixed up results system, AND now also the factor of tyre wear as a key compoenent of competitiveness means that..

It's easier for drivers to look quicker, compared to in the past where team-mates were sometimes seconds apart per lap. See Gene, Pizzionia, Klien, Glock etc. etc.

No doubt PDLR is a solid competant F1 driver, but he is not suddenly a superstar, it's all down to the way the cookie crumbles due to the structure of F1...

It's fallen together such that they are all closer, especially look at Klien's imrovement... due to modern F1's structure, closeness and mixed up ness this is possible.

[thejester]

Personal opinion: Pedro was flattered by having a superb racecar under him, and to his credit he made the most of it.

This reminds me of the comments people make decrying the millions movie stars make from their work.
The drivers make the sport. The more their star rises, the more people want to see and hear about them, the more the money flows into the sport in general. They are entitled to whatever share of the profits they can get their hands on.

The problem is, once someone pays a driver a certain fee, it's difficult to get them to accept less, even when they're fading. Does anyone think Sauber are getting value for money right now?

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by lookleft

Question: What does it say about the stars that get paid many millions when a teams 2nd tester can come in, at a new track and perform so strongly?

It says to me that PLR is a fine driver. And there are plenty more around like him, stuck in testing roles. Victims of the fact that there are quite a few good young drivers around now. Its the same reason that Fisichella laboured on lower teams all those years.

[Wingman]

Is it correct that some of the drivers actually pay a team to drive for them? I would assume this is only the case in the lower teams, but it still keeps some of the "good young drivers" out. Another reason I think F1 has lost it's way.

[Skam85]

Although Minardi's drivers 'pay' the team (e.g their personal sponsors pay), they still get a salary. They don't drive for free.

[steve_r]

He may not have been "outstanding", but he was very quick!

PDLR used to put in some good performances in the Arrows. Like so many who have never quite made, he has never (until the last race) had a car good enough to really catch the eye.

Didn't Mika Salo do an even better job when deputising for TGF a few years ago?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Wingman

Is it correct that some of the drivers actually pay a team to drive for them? I would assume this is only the case in the lower teams, but it still keeps some of the "good young drivers" out. Another reason I think F1 has lost it's way.

Lost it's way! That is the way it has always been. Just one example: Niki Lauda, he was a pay driver! Also compare F1 with other series - it is less rife in F1 than most. e.g.

Running a racing car team requires money, someone has to pay - why not the guy driving?

Even Michael brings money. It is one big mix of sponsorship, personal payment and endorsement.

[Adam43]

Generally, and more in the context of this thread, you pay for diminishing returns. Those extra millions buy that little extra. A tenth or two, a good pass, a decent development, etc... F1 team bosses and management aren't stupid!

Like everything else in F1 those millions are spent to find the last small improvements and these are the improvements that make the difference between winning and coming second.

[Gt_R]

Many drivers just lack that one chance in a competitive seat. It goes to show that there are many so-called "2nd grade" f1 drivers who can be potential race winners if they ever get a proper chance with a top-car. To say that this grid of drivers are not as great as that of the olden times is simply because they are masked by the increasing significance of car-performance.

Just look at Mika Salo... normal, not exciting..but in a Ferrari as a sub, he could have easily record his first f1 victory in Germany.

Of course, i'm not saying that PDLR is in MS-league. But he isn't half that bad either. The likes of Nick and Fisi also took a long way to make it into a top team because they didn't make as huge an impact in their early years such as Webber, Kimi, Montoya, Alonso for example.

Drivers are paid what teams believe they are worth, not just in terms of the driving but also the all round benefits. Montoya for example will bring with him a huge base of fans as much as his talent for example.

[BootsOntheSide]

Salo was brilliant. In Hungary he managed to beat BOTH Minardis! That says a lot more to me than the two low-downforce races where he was near the front.

Pedro was clearly keen to make an impression - I think he went into the race with the same attitude as Davidson did for those 2 races with Mianrdi, that it'#s better to have peopel talking about your spinning off in trying to be fast, than to have peopel ignoring a steady (and actualyl perfectly fast) but anonymous drive.

Over the course of a season I don't think PdlR (or Gene / Pizzonia / Zonta or other recent substitutes) can match the drivers they were filling in for, especially as they often will have done more laps in the car than the regular race drivers (particularly the Friday guys). I think de la Rosa is average out of the guys who've been in F1 in the last decade, maybe slightly above, but there's still a quality gulf with guys like Kimi and JPM.

Considering that all 4 are bringing money directly, I think the Jordana dn Minardi drivers this year are a pretty good crop. At least 1 of them has won races in pretty much every major 'feeder' championship you can name.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Salo was brilliant. In Hungary he managed to beat BOTH Minardis! That says a lot more to me than the two low-downforce races where he was near the front.

Indeed.

Luca Badoer sitting alongside Salo on the grid in the Minardi can't have known whether to laugh or cry!

[Logrence]

One race doesn't make a summer - I wouldn't hire PDLR based on one outing in a good car. Likewise with Salo, way back when.

I dare say Schumacher and the like don't care what they earn, just so long as they get more than the other guy. But if people are willing to pay it, why not?

I was in Austria over the weekend - Friesacher and Klien were all over the papers...they could be considered stars in their home country, I'm sure...doesn't automatically qualify them both for a multi-million salary. Driver skill does come into it somewhere.

[Knowlesy]

Would De La Rosa perfrom so well if he was a regular though?

Bahrain was perhaps his last chance and he drove like a man possessed.....all credit to him.

Anyways, I digress........

Did De La Rosa put the normal race drivers to shame? No, I don't think so.

Sure, he's on less pay. But if he was the regular racer, he'd be on as much pay as Kimi and Juan are so I don't see that as an issue.

Also, De La Rosa is a valued member of McLaren so perhaps we should have expected him to be fast. After all, Ron Dennis doesn't employ slackers. His test team is no different, testers need to have good pace to gain accurate data for the cars development.

[JeremySmith]

I still think Pedro did a realy good job..I doubt that it is that easy to go from a testing mindset where you are alone with the car in a way, into a race mindset.. Good job!

[lookleft]

I fundamentally agree with most of what is written, although the comment about team manager not being stupid deserves another thread

Problem I have is being the guy writing a $25 million payrolll cheque for drivers at Toyota and think ..... Do I get enough "10ths" from Ralf? I would suggest not..... (no need for Ralf fans to get upset - just an example, insert almost any driver).

To me it seem slike more of a boys club where money means nothing, once you are "in" as long as you don't burn bridges you are set .... too many chances given to too many people.

[Kicking-back]

If Toyota want to play Ralf big money, that's their business.

[Logrence]

There must be a huge difference in motivation between showing what you've got in one race and knowing that you've got a sealed contract for millions for the next 3 years. Think how quick some people get when the silly season starts up.

[krt917]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Also, De La Rosa is a valued member of McLaren so perhaps we should have expected him to be fast. After all, Ron Dennis doesn't employ slackers. His test team is no different, testers need to have good pace to gain accurate data for the cars development.

I think that this is a good point. Ron is not going to employ no-hopers because they wouldn't be able to give any meaningful data.

I wouldn't go so far as to say de la Rosa put anyone to shame, but I hope the fact that his in-laps, out-laps and fastest lap were all quicker than Kimi's might give both the usual drivers something to think about.

[Wingman]

If F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, shouldn't we be seeing the best drivers in the world? Rather than the richest?

[Kicking-back]

In the main, most F1 drivers are there on merit.

This year's grid is one of the strongest for a long time - there is not a single driver on the grid who doesn't have a decent CV.

We don't have any Yoongs or Baumgartners this year

[Gt_R]

? hmmm...

Besides the drivers at the back of the grid, which frankly will hardly worry any world champion contenders, constantly changing to the richest bidders, the drivers at the front are basically the same guys as we had a few years back. Hence, we have been having a decent bunch at the front contenders for a few years already.

The only significance is to see the likes of Fisichella and Nick finally getting a decent championship challenging car.

I'm glad with Toyota's emergence as it meant a greater proportion of the grid has a competitive car...hopefully BAR doesn't drop back.

[krt917]

I agree with gt-R and Kb. This year's grid is one of the strongest for a while because the right drivers are in the right cars. We also don't have a Yoong or a Baumgartner. There are other drivers outside F1 who could be as good as some of those on the grid, but I don't think there is anyone obvious who you'd remove at the moment. We need more cars!

[chunterer]

Fair point, normally there's at least a handful of 'tuggers' who've bought their way in.

However it's always been about wealth. There's a bit of a scrap going on about Carroll on another thread about the usual, you know, those that have money and those that don't and how unfair it can be.

Drivers either bring their own sponsorhip or there's a bandwagon behind them and there have been some pretty good 'rich kid' pay driver types in the past... somebody's mentioned Lauda there was Piquet, De Angelis, even Senna to an extent! It's harder now cos of the massive costs and lot less team taking part. The manufacturers and sponsors pick drivers because they 'fit' as much as having god given ability. So now teams take on thse sort of guys for testing roles as well!

Guys like DLR are perfectly good drivers and have done the business up through the ranks and he made the most (almost) of his chance in Bahrain. As usual there's too much pressure and you only get one shot, two if your lucky to make your point with the heavy hitters, if you have a bad day you've had it

Possible exception, Mr De Cesaris!!

Zonta is another example like DLR. He is a lot better than he gets credit for and i thought he should have been given a year wth the Toyota race team, not Ralf!

This will only free itself up a bit more when we have more cars on the entry list again. The early 90's was ace depsite people moaning about quality, because lots of people got their chance and there was plenty of turnover.

[thejester]

Eddie Jordan has said he gave MSC his first F1 drive simply because he could pay.

As someone said, it's always been about money.