The Talmasci and Kallio incident

asha · 2 Oct 2005, 08:38 (Ref:1421928)

Was I the only one that heard Harold Bartol say during the race that "they are under no team orders, just dont do anything risky"

Cause I was watching and listening to the whole thing online. And I'm certain I heard it. And now!?@? wtf?

Quote:

Team Red Bull KTM managing director Harald Bartol commented: “I am not happy at all. This was not a very clever move by Gabor, this could cost us dearly in the championship at the end of the season. Before the race I spoke to Gabor and Julián and made it clear that if they were in front with Mika, then they had to race to support Mika in the championship, but this did not happen from Gabor.”

Hazza · 2 Oct 2005, 09:33 (Ref:1421937)

My goodness me! Watching it was like Yay! Go Gabor! Wait...You fool! What have you done?!

I guess he kinda showed KTM hey: I'm better (Or I think I am) than Kallio, and if I haddn't have been cursed by Hazza in the start of the series I would be here now.

That, and he doesn't want to ride for KTM next year.

I'll have to think this thru and get back to you.

Dani Filth · 2 Oct 2005, 22:04 (Ref:1422312)

maybe he already has a contract with somebody else . so . he just said to KTM .. scr** you

asha · 3 Oct 2005, 00:08 (Ref:1422379)

my main complaint is that Bartol told the world 2 laps into the race that there was no team orders, then we find out after the race that there 'apparently' was!

Hazza · 3 Oct 2005, 02:26 (Ref:1422421)

I still don't know what to say, except for if you look at one of the mechanic's faces as the bikes shoot across the line it goes something like this:

Boyaahh! Wait... Gabor Talmasci!? *Insert mystified looks*

The other thing is Gabor's excuse is that "He thought there was annother lap to go and he wanted to lead a lap." Which makes sense, last year the race was tied, so if Talmasci lead onto the straight Kallio could slip past him, but that doesn't explain why Gabor was going all "C'mooonnn!" on the slow down lap on us.

RobC · 3 Oct 2005, 09:39 (Ref:1422593)

I needed Gabor to win for my fantasy team so I was happy with the result. And technically he still has a shot at the championship so good on him I say. Ok it's ****ed off a KTM but the way they've been doing business lately with Team Roberts, Anthony West etc they deserve a kick up the butt.

Schummy · 3 Oct 2005, 13:40 (Ref:1422829)

I support asha's opening commentary. I was watching the race and I think I heard Bartol saying to the interviewer "...while they don't do anything stupid".

In TV they joked about what "stupid" meant

maybe crashing together (the usual meaning) or maybe not obeying team orders (the malicious meaning).

The strange thing about Talmacsi's move is he never fighted Kallioo in any corner in any lap, and we see Kallio didn't defend in the last straight. So, while I understand in theory Talmacsi's win, but I regret the way he did it.

If Kallio loses the championship by less than fve point, Talmacsi position in KTM and relations with Kallio will be letal.

asha · 4 Oct 2005, 00:11 (Ref:1423284)

Just goes to show that team orders are lame, always have been, always will be.

chunder · 4 Oct 2005, 07:06 (Ref:1423403)

As someone else has said, I think you may find that Talma has already signed something else for next year so maybe thinking "Err, i dont care if Mika wins the title or not" Or in so many words!! I thought it was great to be honest!

asha · 4 Oct 2005, 07:14 (Ref:1423407)

i thought it was great too

Pondo · 5 Oct 2005, 22:17 (Ref:1424805)

Were there team orders, or was it just common sense that he shuldn't have passed Kallio for the win at this stage of the season? It was never going to go down well with KTM...

Hazza · 5 Oct 2005, 22:33 (Ref:1424822)

Well, they claimed there weren't any, then they claimed there were and Talmasci didn't oblige them, and Talmasci claimed that the pit board was wrong and they didnt' know it was the final lap...

So who knows?
Edit: KTM Press Release

Bare in mind how Happy Gabor was when he won... he wasn't exactly "Damn, I've b0rked it now!"

Schummy · 6 Oct 2005, 02:21 (Ref:1424944)

Another point against Gabor is he lied: I agree that his theory about I-thought-it-was-not-the-last-lap is incredible, seeing his attitude after the finish line

Gabor, some hard days ahead.

philneast · 6 Oct 2005, 06:01 (Ref:1425020)

Well back to the origibnal question, yes I heard Bastol quite clearly say that the only team orders were not to do anything silly.

If you are going to have team orders they must be clear.

According to Martin Brundle when he negotiated contracts with Mclaren in F1 it is all spelt out very clearly leaving no doubt.

I think Galbor is till in with an outside chance for the title so good luck to him

cybersdorf · 6 Oct 2005, 23:31 (Ref:1425818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

maybe he already has a contract with somebody else . so . he just said to KTM .. scr** you

I have a feeling it will be the other way round.

sss · 8 Oct 2005, 16:52 (Ref:1427412)

i went to watch this after seeing this thread, and i thought good on him, team orders ruin a race. racers should race the race.

Mystery · 7 Nov 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1453951)

Have I got my maths right here? Luthi won by 5 points and had 4 wins. So did Kalio. Therefore, if Gabor hadnt done this (hilarious) move would Mika be champion???

Dani Filth · 7 Nov 2005, 09:23 (Ref:1453954)

no .. if Mika wouldn't had crashed in Istanbul . he might had a better chance of winning it

rustyfan · 7 Nov 2005, 09:36 (Ref:1453966)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

no .. if Mika wouldn't had crashed in Istanbul . he might had a better chance of winning it

Obviously, but it's a rather big difference between a crash that is your own fault and a surprise move, without having indicated one bit that he intends to make a race out of it, by your team-mate on the very last lap.

I hope Luthi sends Talmacsi some nice gifts as a thank you for aiding him in winning the championship.

Knowlesy · 8 Nov 2005, 14:56 (Ref:1455254)

It's racing.

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