Hey racers, do you like what you drive?

Sodemo · 9 Mar 2001, 01:09 (Ref:69542)

I was just wondering what the racers of this forum thought about the cars they drive. How do they handle, how would they improve it etc.

Renault Clio?

BTCT car?

RickP:Clio51 · 9 Mar 2001, 07:44 (Ref:69565)

I race both the Clio 172 and the Clio V6.

For the 172 which is derived directly from the road car, the handling is very tricky before the rear tyres warm up. The road car rear axle isn't really upto the job for the track and the easiest way to improve it would be to stiffen it right up and try and take out some of the oversteer characteristics.

The V6 is a totally different beast, having been built for racing and not intended for the road. The handling is terrifying, there is no other word for it. The front wheels come off the ground, the back end squirms around and then when you least expect it, the rear end breaks away and you spin like a top.
As for improving it? I wouldn't know where to start but I guess taking the front anti-roll bar off and putting it on the back would be first.

Sadly, the rules don't allow us to do any of the above!

RickP

Sodemo · 9 Mar 2001, 19:36 (Ref:69691)

I do a lot of Karting with my University, (although I don't own my own) so from going to a go-kart to race car, how is it different? I suppose you can't throw the cars into corners and expect to save yourself with a bit of opposite lock, like you can with karts.

PS were do u buy your racegear, the only place I know is GrandPrix Racewear in London (where im studying) which is a) too expensive and b) the guys in there are complete dicks. But they did do me a good price on a pair of Diadora race boots though.

PPS what brand of gloves do u use, I have two year old Sparco GP ones, and i find that the base of my thumbs gets really blistered if i am more than 3/4 hour at the wheel.

**Craig** · 9 Mar 2001, 19:48 (Ref:69693)

I've heard that this company know what they're doing:

http://ukwww.stand21uk.com/

And if you're after info on the Clio Cup, take a look at www.cliosport.com

sprinter · 12 Mar 2001, 01:03 (Ref:70302)

Sodemo

If your going from karts to sprint cars your experience with opposite lock will definitely come in handy (and you will have a great time).

Buy the best saftey gear no matter how much money and where you have to go for the purchase.

RickP:Clio51 · 12 Mar 2001, 07:56 (Ref:70354)

You can throw the 172 into the corners, but you have to be pretty brave to do that in the V6.
Although since I last posted, Renault have announced a package of improvements including adding a rear anti-roll bar!!!
Speak to Julie at Stand21UK, I only wear their kit. Not the cheapest, but will last and last. 01474 855 319
Cheers
Rick

Vandas · 12 Mar 2001, 13:29 (Ref:70436)

Well I drive a Mazda RX7 Series 2. 13B Bridgeport engine, which puts out over 210kw from the flywheel and over 170kw from the rear wheels. It weighs almost exactly 1000kgs, with a 51-49 weight split. It handles beautifully, it has bags of power. Has a very light rear end though, so have to be careful and never lift off the power too suddenly otherwise your life goes flashing before your eyes.

We did make a few changes last year by seam welding the entire front end, to make it stiffer (as we can't run the cage past the firewall.). We had fuel surge problems, but the new tank we built this summer, hasn't let us down. We also put in Motech, which is awesome. I never knew how beneficial it could be. Especially for my Dad, we did a comparison of my gear changes to his. My average was .4 of a second. His was over the second mark. Which proves he could be winning races, or at least putting the car on pole every round. The new gearbox is so fast and easy, I think he is having a little trouble getting used to it.

What I would like to change is the tyres we run. We have control tyres, which stop us from really bringing down the times. They tried to make us run on Yokohamas only, and they are a **** tyre (in the class we run in). so I would like to run slicks, but no we have to do what CAMS tells us. hehehe

I would like more power, but then again who doesn't.

Cameron

Rob Buhl · 13 Mar 2001, 07:22 (Ref:70721)

Yes, I can't really complain. If anything, I would like a little more power. Basically, this is restricted because our sanctioning body forces us to use rev-limiters to keep speeds down and passing at a premium. We set the car up with a slight tendency of oversteer for the initial stages of the race because it "almost always" begins to tighten up as the race goes on. I would like to car to stay pretty balanced throughout the stints because the rear end stepping on me is always in the back of my mind while cornering. This would just satisfy me mentally.

Neil C · 13 Mar 2001, 15:00 (Ref:70788)

Rob Buhl,
Welcome to the 10/10 forum. Please introduce yourself to those members around the world that may not be aware of your racing accomplishments.

Are you still based in Michigan? (I'm in Ann Arbor). I met you years ago when you had a display at the Auto Show in Detroit, and I am happy for your success in the years since.

Good luck to you this season.

yelwoci · 13 Mar 2001, 17:25 (Ref:70828)

Like Vandas
I drive a series 2 Mazda RX7 but with a measley 12A bridgeport producing around 200bhp @wheels.

My weight split is closer to 55:45 than Vandas 51:49, except when running with 75L of fuel!!!

I'm not sure mine handles beautifully, unless you drive it either very smoothly - which is bit slow, or you grab it by the horns - but I'm nit quite brave enough yet!
The tail has severe designed in geomtery problems and binds after 3 degs, which is just as well 'cos the geometry steers the live axle on roll.
As Vandas suggests..lifting off is fun!!!
NO.1 Requirement, let me change the rear end.
Move short top links to outside of diff housing (aka Corolla GT rwd/Sprinter, Chysler/Talbot Sunbeam) and replace /move asymmetric Watts linkage

My cage is a brilliant bespoke multipoint which I partially designed ' cos I'm racing with 2000kg Camaros and Jags and want to survive! It works for its living and goes to the front struts too.

Weight is an issue. On cards are alloy radiators, Penske struts, alloy hubs and Inconel exhaust headers all for USD$2000......precede by 3 pink pigs following a 747.

Vandas said "They tried to make us run on Yokohamas only, and they are a **** tyre "
What was the problem, unless you were running on A509/510s
Yokis are fantastic.

I need to check my regs to see if I can run the engine in the RX-8 configuration!!

IanC

Sodemo2 · 14 Mar 2001, 12:24 (Ref:71052)

After going from karts, what would you say is the best (and cheapest) form of saloon racing?

I would like to race on proper british tracks, Silverstone, Donnington etc, but I have no experience with setting up cars at all. (Although things like ride height, camber settings seem pretty easy to understand)

Im not really looking at a career path, just for a bit of fun.

RickP:Clio51 · 14 Mar 2001, 12:27 (Ref:71054)

I cut my teeth in the Super Coupe Cup.

You can pick up a good car for £2500-£3000 (in fact I happen to have a super-competitive R5 Turbo for sale...)
and the tyres last a decent number of races.

They go to all the good UK tracks and someone like Mark Fish Motorsport will check the car over between meetings and put the right settings on it for the next round for about £100-£150.

Its a great way to get involved and the cars are pretty much equal so you can't buy your way to the front as they are all old one make racers.

RickP

Sodemo2 · 14 Mar 2001, 12:31 (Ref:71056)

Ric, are they front wheel drive?
I don't know if i could handle front wheel drive cars!

RickP:Clio51 · 14 Mar 2001, 12:35 (Ref:71059)

Very few are rear drive.... no Super coupe cars

Sodemo2 · 14 Mar 2001, 13:00 (Ref:71063)

Ric, if i go to any BTCC rounds this year and if you aren't too busy, do u mind if we have a chat?

RickP:Clio51 · 14 Mar 2001, 13:12 (Ref:71067)

If you can find me, I am always happy to meet 10-tenths crew for a chat.
Have a look at my columns on the parc ferme for more details on Super Coupes.
Keep in mind that I won't be racing at the TOCA meets this year unless a large sponsor materialises in the next 4 weeks!
I will be at Monza Thurs-Sun next week if you are in the area though?? !!!
Cheers
RickP

Chris Y · 14 Mar 2001, 14:02 (Ref:71080)

Sodemo, if you're looking to get started in motorsport, on the proper circuits, you'll be hard pressed to find any rear-wheel drive options, unless you go for open-wheelers.

There is one I know of - Legends racing, but it's likely to be very expensive, and you'll be up against stiff competition. (plus, you really would have to know how to tweak your settings)

You could always follow my lead (not too closely now

) and go for something like Mini racing. It's fairly cheap, the racing is close, it's just for fun, you don't need to fiddle with the cars too much, and if something goes wrong on them, they're about the easiest and cheapest things to fix on the planet.

Plus - they're really rewarding to drive - ask anyone who drives a Mini, either on the racetrack or on the road!

You don't just have to do Minis mind - there are quite a lot of cheap saloon action series running at the moment. Things like the Fulda Fiats are good fun and close racing, there's the VW cup, which may be a little on the expensive side though, Ford saloons, and XR challenge are okay, but the drivers tend to have no sense of self-preservation, and there's also things like the stock-hatch championship, which covers a wide variety of cars with limited modifications.

Good places to look for information are the BRSCC website: http://www.brscc.co.uk/championships/index.htm (which also features a 'getting started' section) or the 750MC club's website, which run the stock-hatches: http://www.750mc.co.uk

Finally, there's us.. People who already race.. Rick has already volunteered his services (nice chap), but if you can make it to Silverstone this Saturday (17th), you can meet some of the 10/10ths members, including me, and there will also be the classic saloon car club, and the MG car club racing.

Actually, I've just reminded myself. Some of the MGs and classic saloons racing on Saturday will be rear-wheel drive, and they are saloons..

Anyway - if you can't make it to Silverstone on the Saturday, the 750MC are holding a meeting at Donington on the Sunday (18th), where they will have Stock and Hot Hatches, plus a couple of others. I may go there myself, because I may run in some rounds of the Hot Hatch championship myself..

The following weekend (the 25th) sees my first race with the Mighty Minis at Donington Park. There's going to be a big 10/10ths presence, and the Minis will be joined by the Fulda Fiats, the VW cup, and the Alfa Romeo club - which ****** (or whatever) of this forum is in, although we haven't been able to extract his real name from that information!

Phew! Enough already. PM me if you want to know more, or best of all, turn up at some of these meetings and we'll share some info on getting started.

Chris Y · 14 Mar 2001, 15:22 (Ref:71092)

Sodemo - you and woodyracing should get together. You're both looking to do the same things as far as I can tell.

Check out woodyracing's website - he has some interesting links for getting started, including a like to the Fulda Fiats web page - check this one out in particular. If I wasn't doing Minis this year, I'd probably do bobbins Fiats, the competitors always look like they're having far too much fun

Rob Buhl · 21 Mar 2001, 06:08 (Ref:73230)

Hey Neil, thanks for the encouragement. We had some problems with the car in Phoenix but we are looking forward for a good run at Homestead, April 8. Look out for us and keep supporting American open-wheel racing. See you at the races...

**Peter Mallett** · 21 Mar 2001, 08:23 (Ref:73246)

Rob Buhl? As in Rob(bie) Buhl?

Either way welcome to the forum. Why not put some of your tails on (electronic) paper and send them to Parc Ferme?

Good luck this year.

Chris Griffin · 22 Mar 2001, 12:12 (Ref:73557)

Sodemo2...contrary to Chris Y's statement regarding lack of choice re rear wheel drive options, check out the CSCC. 95% of our entrants run rear drive cars.

http://www.csccgb.co.uk

Chris

DAVID PATERSON · 22 Mar 2001, 12:45 (Ref:73569)

We've done a lot of work to My Datsun over the break and the new brakes are excellent and it handles OK too. But 960kg and 75hp does not add up right. The class does not allow much in the way of weight removal but there is plenty of scope for horsepower increases. All I have to do is spend more money and sacrifice reliability. I'm not keen on either option.

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