Saving Spa-Francorchamps

JeremySmith · 19 Nov 2005, 19:37 (Ref:1465090)

Please excuse me if this subject has been discussed elsewhere I could not it..

It seems a dreadful shame to think that Spa may well be taken of the calendar and that we could loose if for ever.

I would have thought with all of the millions of pounds that Mr Eccclestone is worth that he could/would personally promote the race. Am I wrong in my thinking?

safc_fan89 · 19 Nov 2005, 19:39 (Ref:1465091)

If he did that for one, he'd have to do that for every track. But the amount they have to pay just to be in F1 is ridiculous, so it's not a surprise that Spa is having problems.

Flaming_Wuzzle · 19 Nov 2005, 19:41 (Ref:1465093)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Am I wrong in my thinking?

Of course you are! What other way would there be to have room for the Tilke circuits in countries we have never heard of before that will be added to be calendar in the next few years?

please note, this post is extremely sarcastic. do not take at face value. repeat, do not take at face value.

safc_fan89 · 19 Nov 2005, 19:45 (Ref:1465095)

Why would Bernie pay money if he can make money? I read in F1 Racing that there is an F1 development in Dubai that will be ready for 2008. Some races need to go to make space for the new ones. Shame it will be the few remaining classic tracks.

JeremySmith · 19 Nov 2005, 19:52 (Ref:1465099)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaming_Wuzzle

Of course you are! What other way would there be to have room for the Tilke circuits in countries we have never heard of before that will be added to be calendar in the next few years?

please note, this post is extremely sarcastic. do not take at face value. repeat, do not take at face value.

That is quite alright I expected to get leapt on for bringing up this subject so far you ALL make points that are absolutely spot on.

Piglet · 19 Nov 2005, 20:04 (Ref:1465110)

I've said for a while that I think we'll see a smaller number of rotating European GP's - Spa one year, France next, Germany next etc. etc. - just enough to keep the domestic interest but a small enough number to get in the new emerging countries which aren't subject to tight advertising legislation and have large populations that the car manufacturers etc. want to get their claws into.

Raglanparade · 20 Nov 2005, 06:56 (Ref:1465387)

Well you would need to bundle a group of circuits together and then rotate the GP.

Which countries do u think should be sharing a GP ?

France and Belgium sounds logical.

Germany and Italy should have only one race and alternate between circuits.

Spain and GB pretty much have a right to a GP at the moment (given the F1 home of GB, and Fernando being Spanish).

I still think that a 20-22 race calender wouldnt hurt F1.. it would just make it more like nascar.

GreyWolf74 · 20 Nov 2005, 08:20 (Ref:1465409)

Hearing that the Spa-Francorchamps circuit has filed for bankrupcy is disturbing in and of itself. A classic circuit is gone for the forseeable future.

It makes me wonder who's next. Putting on a Formula One race can't be cheap (my guess is, several million dollars), and bans on advertising certain products (tobacco, for example) can only make things worse. That leaves ticket sales to pick up the slack, but there is a finite number of people a track can hold, and a limit to how much people will pay to see a race.

I have to wonder, if an institution like Spa folded, who's next? Will other long-established European tracks be dropped from the schedule, to be replaced by others for the sake of the money? Or will Formula One eventually be priced out of Europe, go chasing money and wind up in strange places just because that's where Bernie and company can get their price. (Maylasia and China are two examples of this.)

I also wonder how many potential tracks have looked at the numbers and said "No thanks!" From what I hear, cost-versus-earnings has put F1 out of a lot of American tracks, and kept out of others.

Kicking-back · 20 Nov 2005, 08:24 (Ref:1465412)

I don't believe we will see a cut back in European races.

That was always seen as a threat in the tobacco era - but that's effectively over.

JeremySmith · 20 Nov 2005, 15:39 (Ref:1465630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

Why would Bernie pay money if he can make money? I read in F1 Racing that there is an F1 development in Dubai that will be ready for 2008. Some races need to go to make space for the new ones. Shame it will be the few remaining classic tracks.

Point taken but to allow Spa to disappear would be nothing short of a travesty! Do some of the races need to go to make room for new venues? is this the way to decide which races survive and which perish.

And I hope you are right Gordon..

fazzaz · 20 Nov 2005, 16:16 (Ref:1465656)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyWolf74

I also wonder how many potential tracks have looked at the numbers and said "No thanks!" From what I hear, cost-versus-earnings has put F1 out of a lot of American tracks, and kept out of others.

After the issues at Indianapolis in 2005 and the possibility that the track would decline to host the 2006 USGP (and that was a very real possibility for a while), someone allegedly representing Bernie contacted a number of major tracks in the US. (I have this from what I consider a very reliable source, a journalist who is in touch with these tracks.)

The cost to these tracks for staging the USGP would far, far exceed the revenue which could be realized from ticket sales. (Almost every other source of revenue during the event goes to FOM.) There were substantial costs to redo the tracks and add the infrastructure (garages and paddock club facilities, for instance) required, as well as operational costs for the event itself.

The value and return to the tracks was presented as the prestige of hosting the event.

As these tracks are almost all owned or managed by people with an understanding of profit and loss, every track apparently declined this wonderful opportunity.

I can see where the prestige of hosting and financing a GP could have value to a developing country. Spa is in a different situation, and I can also understand why the local governments in the area have problems underwriting the race. It would be nice to think that a way could be found to keep this race on the schedule; it is one of the (too) few remaining ties to the history of racing.

At this point, though, it might take major concessions from Bernie, and he's not really well known for leaving a dollar (or Euro) on the table.

We Love Osella · 20 Nov 2005, 16:19 (Ref:1465660)

Other great tracks have gone, so what right does Spa have to survive if it can't pay for itself. It all boils down to finance, if you don't have it you're gone and someone ekse will take your place. Anyway the place hasn't been the same since they shortened it

JeremySmith · 20 Nov 2005, 16:52 (Ref:1465697)

Quote:

Originally Posted by We Love Osella

Other great tracks have gone, so what right does Spa have to survive if it can't pay for itself. It all boils down to finance, if you don't have it you're gone and someone ekse will take your place. Anyway the place hasn't been the same since they shortened it

That is a rather *chilly* way of looking at things if you don't mind me saying. Your correct of course when one looks in those terms, then the issue becomes very black and white.

I am not going to get into the "how much money does one man need" syndrome but you know what I mean.

Fazzaz I like your post, Welcome to this great forum

Purist · 20 Nov 2005, 17:01 (Ref:1465707)

Actually, many of the historical permanent circuits have survived in some significant form (Nurburgring, Monza, Silverstone, Le Mans-permanent/road circuit, Indianapolis). Yes, some of the old road circuits are gone (BRNO, Lobethal, Pescara, Elkart Lake), but even some of these, as in the case of BRNO, have had permanent replacements built.

As for the money, Spa holds one of the most popular Grands Prix of the year, so they get both a relatively good live attendance, and I would suspect, a very good tv audience as well. Thus, even by that measure, it would seem a wise investment to keep it. To add to that, it is an event that has proven the be successful on a VERY long-term basis, and therefore is an event that is a known quantity in that it can be counted on for years/decades to come.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Nov 2005, 17:52 (Ref:1465744)

Welcome to our friendly forum GreyWolf74.

I have to admit I hadn't heard aboutSpa Francorchamps filing for bankruptcy so I'm a bit surpirsed. However the posts here throw up a few points.

Of course traditionally F1 is European so to lose a european (and indeed classic) circuit is a big loss to any enthusiast. But as has been highlighted, it matters little to the drivers and teams where they race as long as they do. So sadly I don't expect any benvolence from Bernie E.

Then there's the subject of where the GP's should be. We tend to think of our world in "60's" terms whereby just to cross the channel to France was an expedition. And the Alantic? Like going to the moon. But now we can get frm Britain to Australia in just over a day. Conceivably a long weekend break can get you to the Chinese GP and home again in time to start work on Tuesday morning.

So geography doesn't come into the equation anymore and that (along with) the lack of tobacco rules means we can go to more places. (I was at the Turkish GP this year and it was good).

However even if you can run with tobacco sponsorship you can't be seen in some countries so that defeats the sponsorship object.

All in all I like the idea of a longer season and 20 races can't be too difficult, especially now they've got reliability sorted. (Except Merc of course

)

Purist · 20 Nov 2005, 18:01 (Ref:1465755)

Actually, most of the teams and drivers have said at some stage and length that they rather enjoy racing at Spa. About the only drivers I can think of who have said they didn't like the place for some reason were Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Nov 2005, 18:03 (Ref:1465757)

I like racing at Spa too. Which is my main concern here.

Ginetta · 20 Nov 2005, 18:04 (Ref:1465759)

But if the place is bankrupt, sorry but it has to close or be turned into a housing development.

BootsOntheSide · 20 Nov 2005, 18:50 (Ref:1465793)

The FIA should be putting a deal together to save the place. We can't afford to lose classic racetracks, especially as the ones being built now are in most cases so bad.

Dutton · 20 Nov 2005, 18:57 (Ref:1465799)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

About the only drivers I can think of who have said they didn't like the place for some reason were Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark.

The high risk factor was their problem I believe. They had a freaky attachment to life,

.

safc_fan89 · 20 Nov 2005, 20:04 (Ref:1465839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by We Love Osella

Other great tracks have gone, so what right does Spa have to survive if it can't pay for itself. It all boils down to finance, if you don't have it you're gone and someone ekse will take your place. Anyway the place hasn't been the same since they shortened it

It probably hasn't (I can't say), but by today's standards it is a great track, even if it is less challenging and punishing on the drivers as it was just 6 years ago or something.

JeremySmith · 20 Nov 2005, 20:55 (Ref:1465872)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginetta

But if the place is bankrupt, sorry but it has to close or be turned into a housing development.

I know that if you are a true fan of Formula1 you do not mean the above, do you Ginetta?

We Love Osella · 20 Nov 2005, 20:56 (Ref:1465874)

Quote:

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

It probably hasn't (I can't say), but by today's standards it is a great track, even if it is less challenging and punishing on the drivers as it was just 6 years ago or something.

I was talikng about the full 8 + Mile circuit

Ginetta · 20 Nov 2005, 21:03 (Ref:1465882)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I know that if you are a true fan of Formula1 you do not mean the above, do you Ginetta?

More of a fan of racing. I would miss the Spa 24hrs though

**Adam43** · 20 Nov 2005, 21:11 (Ref:1465889)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginetta

But if the place is bankrupt, sorry but it has to close or be turned into a housing development.

How can you flippantly suggest such a thing. The world would be significantly worse off without Spa. In addition there is plenty of place for houses around there and that would probably be a poor site for a new estate.

We need it. We need to watch the best drivers and the best cars race on it. And we need to drive it. Life is incomplete without Spa-Francorchamps.

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