Prodrive, Penske and Gerhard Berger to enter in 2008

[chunterer]

Mr Ecclestone is reported to have said that he expects more teams to enter F1 after 2007.

He reckons that Prodrive, (which has already been rumoured) Penske (ditto but not as much) and a team run by Gerhard Berger will also enter if costs come down to an acceptable level.

Assuming there is no breakaway series and no exisitng teams leave we could have a minimum of 28 cars ready for practice at the 2008 opener!!

We know that both Dave Richards and Penske would have little trouble assembling the required workforce and have the nous to make competitive entrants, but will Berger manage an existing team or come in with his own set up?

Also what engines would be most likely to power such entries?

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Doesn't the concorde agreement stipulate a maxiumum of 22 cars?

[Hatz]

It's 24

[kipper]

I think the limit is 24 cars, which would still create a shortful if the proposed Penske, Prodrive and Gerhard Berger teams come to fruition. However, that assumes that all of the current entrants continue, which remains to be seen, for example, there are question marks over Renault's involvement.

[enemy-ace]

It's all well and good that lower costs could bring in new teams, but they will be scrapping it out at the back of the grid. Unless they have major "big money" sponsors how can they hope to compete against the manufacturers.

[Mekola]

And what about a Spanish F1 team? Enrique Scalabroni's BCN squad could have F1 aims for 2008. And don't forget Racing Engineering, they have solid support by Spanish giants Telefónica and Repsol-YPF.

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Concorde Agreement is a contract between the FIA, the ten Formula One teams and Formula One Administration which dictates the terms by which the teams compete in races and take their share of the television revenues and prize money. There have in fact been five separate Concorde Agreements, all of whose terms are kept strictly secret: the first in 1981, others in 1987, 1992, and 1997, and the present agreement in 1998, which superseded the 1997 agreement and is due to expire at the end of 2007.

so, maybe the 2008 agreement will allow for more teams to join the fun.


on the other hand: weren't the majority of teams planning of leaving in 2008 to form their own series?

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

It's all well and good that lower costs could bring in new teams, but they will be scrapping it out at the back of the grid. Unless they have major "big money" sponsors how can they hope to compete against the manufacturers.

FOM could create a Privateer Teams Cup, as they did in 1987-88 when they created a special championship for non-turbo engined teams (Jim Clark Cup / Colin Chapman Trophy).

[F.O.F.]

24+ cars would be absoltely brilliant for the sport.there is a good chance renault will be leaving soon but probably staying on as an engine supplier and prodrive would have ties with many engine manufacturers not least honda.i know its a bit unrealistic to expect all these teams sitting on the grid in 2008 but we might get 1 or 2 out of it

[Alwaysfirst]

The main reason that the 24 car maximum is still in force is because it is many years since F1 has had even the possibility on having more cars than this. I believe that now F1 will allow expantion of grid sizes to 28+ as this will mainly make the sport look stronger. Much more than 28 though & we will have to revert to pre-qualifying just to make racing safe & practical.

[Pingguest]

More teams is OK, but for what price?

Besides, I thought that there was a limit of 26 cars on the starting grid.

[Dutton]

The limit is 24.

As has also been said, the new CA could well leave the door open for more teams. I would venture that seems likely.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by marcel82

so, maybe the 2008 agreement will allow for more teams to join the fun.

Exactly, that is why 2008 is the common factor in new teams, rule change or break away series discussions. All can potentially come to fruition because of the end of the current agreement.

So to a certain extent all 22/24/26 'discussions' can go out the window too. Any starting from scratch can happen so much easier in 2008 hence the many things that are being muted. Perhaps some old stuck in the mud ideas and points of view can be abandoned too.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Perhaps some old stuck in the mud ideas and points of view can be abandoned too.

Such as.....?.........

[Adam43]

It was a general observation, the more there is scope for change the more people seem to fight against it despite originally thinking things needed changing. However that maybe going of topic, for which I am sorry. The rest of my post wa sthe key to what I was saying:

2008 is when the current agreement ends so there is scope for new agreements. Hence we see much pondering as to who and what may happen.

[Dutton]

Ah, I see. I misread the tone, I thought there was something more specific behind the line.

As for the general thrust, as encapsulated by the last paragraph of your most recent post, there can be little doubt you are right. Stating the obvious, no less.

I'd think, though, the debate is about what is different between the new CA and the old one (that is, the current one), rather than about the possibility of alternative agreements.

I don't suppose the increased transparency the GPMA apparently wants is going to help us very much.

[Adam43]

The potential new teams shows there is a potential for new things to happen. However I guess we still need everything else (new CA included) to fall in place. It is good that we have three potential teams sniffing around.

[Dixie Flatline]

IIRC, the new version of the Concorde Agreement has already been prepared and circulated to the parties, as Ferrari and Williams have agreed to it. I wonder what it says about expanding the number of cars on the grid.

[Adam43]

I suspect it is still open to modification (subject agreement of those already signed!), but people have already signed up. Although the exact details are sketchy (at least for most!). Has the final document been signed or just an intent to sign it!

[Dutton]

The new CA most certainly is in existence!

The question fo what it says about expanding the grid is what we are all wondering.

For that matter, I'd love to read the whole document.

You'd think the GPMA, with its interest in the sport being transparent, would be thoroughly up for publishing it in full.

Of course, there are two problems with that:

1) In reality, they don't want the sport transparent.
2) Even if they did, the non-GPMA members wouldn't.

So, we are stuck with a bunch of guessing over the vast majority of its details for the next few years.

Mind you, they may let us know certain bits and pieces.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

The lower costs excuse doesn't really wash when it comes to organisations with the clout of Prodrive and Penske, both of them could muster up the funding and technical staff for an F1 project in their sleep. They're just holding out so the initial costs aren't such a burden and I can't really blame them for that.

If Super Aguri can make it to the grid there's no reason other teams can't. Granted, Aguri has had an unknown amount of support from Honda but I very much doubt they're paying all the bills.

[Raglanparade]

Well they have broken the concorde agreement before.

All it takes is the unanimous support of all teams on the grid !

I dont see a problem with a 32 car grid, it works well with V8 Supercar in Australia, and i think 32 is a good large number.

Last time i checked Albert Park had room for 18 Teams (3 Garages per team)

[WebberForWDC]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

It's all well and good that lower costs could bring in new teams, but they will be scrapping it out at the back of the grid. Unless they have major "big money" sponsors how can they hope to compete against the manufacturers.

that's what ze control parts and restricted regulations are for?

[kmsport]

to me.........F1 SHOULD have a definition that means.....UNRESTRICTED

[BootsOntheSide]

It would be great to see a few new teams added, and Penske and Peodrive would probably have every chance of putting a reasonably competitive squad togehter - although they may only want to put the effort in if costs drop enough for them to be able to be competitive. I haven't heard anything about Gerhard Berger's plans yet, but he'd have every chance of finding investors to get a team onto the grid.