Brscc(se) Brands Hatch (gp)

[archaic gold]

Just a big 'Thank-you' to the BRSCC(SE) for putting on such a great day (today-Saturday), on the Grand Prix Circuit. Many of us had a certain amount of trepidation, but ALL the races had virtually full-grids, non less than 24 cars and I am sure that at least four races had full grid entries, O'k, so we lost one or two in qualifying! The only downside was the weather; no fault of the BRSCC(SE) which made things rather damp after about 2.30pm. But, we did get nearly 45 minutes Lunch Break. Congatulations!!!

[DavidBritainUK]

Good grids and some good racing. Not bad for an Easter Saturday.

[Suze]

No, was a good day out...

[Snapper Baz]

..but what a strange and possibly dangerous Marshal post allocation I thought. Out at Westfield (post 17) there were two marshals, 1 flag and 1 course. This was one of the most used/visited posts of the day by wayward and often crashing cars and has been one of the most incident common posts now on the GP circuit since the new Westfield layout which is widely known by many spectators and as shown on tv last year. The two hard worked marshals had nobody opposite on the inside of the corner for back-up and this side saw a number of hard hits where drivers were seemingly at first a bit dazed by their hefty accidents leaving the marshals unable to get to them due to oncoming traffic...yet, at the post before, (16 I presume) at Westfield entry where nothing (or rarely) ever happens they had 4 on post, 2 others 50 yards on and a rescue vehicle parked-where is the logic there then? There were some very close calls as well with spinning cars narrowly being avoided by the following cars-had there been a major incident it would have been worrying though interesting to watch the outcome. Well done to all though on a damp and miserable afternoon.

[Suze]

Can see you point - didn't get out to the GP loop so didn't see any of that

[Eddy V]

It seems the GP circuit on a Saturday for a clubbie doesn't work too well. Every post was understaffed. I, as Observer with one flagmarshal (thanks Phil), did more running on the exit of Druids then in the last few years together.

It's not always easy to take the right decision on allocation. Still a fun day, albeit a bit wet.

[archaic gold]

I go back to my start of the thread! A large number of us had a certain amount of trepidation on running 'clubby on the GP loop. And, I still stand by my comment that the entry and the racing justified the decision. Perhaps we can build on this and encourage more Marshals to help us on this? From the top of my head, I think the HSCC are the next Club to use the GP Loop, and hopefully more Marshals will turn up. To go back to Barry, most Posts had a similiar structure and I thought that the allocation was pretty professional. Do not forget, Post 16 (Westfield) had the (luckily) only car fire of the day!!

[archaic gold]

O'k, I should have added, there was a Rescue Unit at Westfield Post 16. But was it not in the best position to attend any major Incident at Post 17???

[Snapper Baz]

Yes it was but until the rescue vehicle arrives...? And as mentioned, two big hits with the armco showed that a marshal could not get to the incident until the red flags were shown and was then able to cross the circuit safely as its in a downhill section and not best sighted for drivers (who should be slowing anyway but many were not)...I'm sure had it been a very serious accident then a marshal MAY have tried to get accross but it was still not the best of scenarios.

[archaic gold]

Barry, where would be have got the extra Marshals from? I respect your comments and your experience as you know, but you visited me at Stirlings; another contentious corner, and I had only 1 Flag Marshal, (John Baker - very experienced) and 2 Course Marshals, one of limited experience; and one Trainee).
We had quite a few 'offs'. I can only repeat, that with the man(woman) power available, I think the BRSCC did a very good job in allocations. The majority of Marshals love the excitement of being a Marshal, but also the camaderie that comes with being on Post. To split the few Marshals apart, especially in the miserable weather conditions we suffered in the afternoon might have dampened (excuse pun) many spirits. Finally, you should know only TOO wel, one cannot predict where the next major incident will be. It could have been at Posts 11/12 on teh straight!!!

[Stoowert]

I think, by and large, the BRSCC "Got away with it" on Saturday. I was on post 2, and my other marshal could only stay until 3pm. Post 3 had 3 marshals and I think 4A had 3 also. I think the miserable conditions helped, if any, in keeping the speeds down and I think the drivers should be commended on by-and-large keeping off the green stuff. My one concern was the large gaps between races when nothing seemed to be happening. The Startline Marshals seemed to be standing out on the track for over 10 mins before any cars appeared. I would've thought the priority would've been to get the races underway as soon as possible. I bet there were some very wet drivers in the open-cockpit races! Like I said at the start - it could've been a lot worse!
I think Annie and Nigel did an admirable job, given the sparse resourses in post allowcation. You just can't win on a track like Brands - Ask Johnnie Herbert!

[chezza]

I think what Baz was trying to say is why were there quite a few marshals on a relatively quite post but so few on a busy post. There could have been better ways to allocate the marshals that were there.

[Stoowert]

All can say is - If you think you could do a better post allowcation - try it! As post allowcation is done "on the hoof" as various orange shapes queue up to be given a post, all posts and disciplines have to be spread as and where. After all, Annie and Nigel never really know how many people are going to turn up. Plus theres the thorny problem of trainees and where to put 'em. T'aint easy.

[Al Weyman]

Well despite your problems I would like to thank you guys for your efforts and sticking it out in the rain so we could at least get a few laps in at the end of the day, glad I did'nt need your services on this occassion though (makes a change).

I thought the track even in the dry was very dirty especially when we were the first out, there was dust everywhere no wonder so many went off!

[archaic gold]

Come on Stoowert!! The main reason for quite long delays in between races, was the fact that there were quite a large number of 'offs'; especially on the GP circuit. These, perhaps, were not obvious to you!
D&G and the MSV Marshalling Staff on recovery did a great job, but it all took time. After the VW race, I had three cars for recovery on my Post (20), alone.
I was n't the only location!!

[archaic gold]

To answer Chazz, now! What is a quiet Post? I repeat, if we knew in advance where the major Incidents were to be held, the organising Club could cater for this. Some seem more likely than others, but; back to Johnny Herbert - on the straight, Posts 12/13 etc!!!! I rest my case!

Again, to follow previous comments; Anne and Nigel did a very good job in spreading out the meagre resources available very professionally. There is a limit, and Stoowert has quoted the case very fairly!!!

[Snapper Baz]

Please read my first post again as I think AG your now missing the point. As I said in the begining-and as Chez kindly mentions, Post 17 is now seemingly the new accident magnet spot as we have already found out in past GP circuit days due to the new layout of the corner, everybody seems to know it, the media know it and the specatators know it hence the number watching there now. Post 16 is relatively quiet-post 17 isn't, yet marshals on post 16 were more than double-even after the constant incidents at the next post no marshals were re-allocated. The guys on 17 did a great job on their own but could have done with at least another bod or two to help out-especially on the inside of that corner where many drivers ended up...its like having 8 marshals on the startline and 2 at Paddock Bend for the day..you just know it will be a problem!

[chezza]

Ok yes there really isn't such a thing as a quiet post, but there are things that mean some posts are busier than others with Baz giving such an example.

With corners being changed and reprofiled it can lead the incidents happening and ending up indifferent places.

We are experiencing a similar thing at Silverstone with Copse corner...when the gravel was there stuff ended up close to the gap in the middle of the corner, now days it mostly ends up at the exit of the corner. The powers that be at silverstone have noticed this and an analysis of where the radio calls are coming from is occuring to see if the allocation of marshals should be changed.

[archaic gold]

O'k Chezza and Barry, I would think that airing this point to it's extreme may have prompted the 'Post Allocators' to look again for the next meeting!
However, I do feel from your comments, and remember I was at Stirlings so do not have the benefit of observing (with a small 'o'), the incidents you refer to, but could not two of the Incident Marshals from Post 16 have been placed on the OTHER side of the Circuit at a point half way between 16 & 17?
Silverstone point noted! I was Observer at Copse Exit at the MGCC Meeting (1st April)! Yes, All Fools Day!!!

[danccooke]

Well for me it was shame, I had been looking forward to the meet all week after a nasty mixed shift pattern at work, and seeing the size of the grids that were going to be out.
As soon as we arrived Dee and I knew it was going to be a tough day, GP loop and about as many marshals as posts. We were given post 13A to ourselves. I have no desire to be an flag marshal or an observer and neither does Dee however we all muck in when required, so we do what we have to. For me though my day is summed up as being worst days marshalling in my relatively short three year career.
Flagging in a position when you can't actually blue due to being unsighted because of the rise, standing with my back to the track all day with a yellow as my wife in not confident enough to do so. Standing in the rain (not BRSCC's fault) whilst waiting forever for sessions to begin. Not being called at lunch to say what time to be back, Not being called at the end of the day to say that the red flag had brought the end of the session/day. not being experienced enough to know if something did happen, did i deal with the incident/driver, wave a flag or phone in and not knowing which priority to put these, i am after all a relative new comer. We decided between us that if something happened Dee would take the yellow flag from me, i would call in the problem then leg it out on track to push/assess damage.
Sadly i think next time there is a Clubbie meet on the GP loop i have a sneaky suspision that it will be another two marshals shorter than the last. unless there is something here to say that there are good numbers.

Sorry to be grumpy but the end of the day couldn't come quick enough for me. We were trying to persuade a friend to come join us the other side of the fence for the day, i am glad he was busy as i think we would have scared him away.

I am looking forward to the rest of the season and hope to see you all about.

[danccooke]

On a lighter note though that 5.7 litre focus looked and sounded mean as hell, and I loved the flame outs as it breaked into Hawthorns. The one benefit of standing with my back to the traffic all day.

[archaic gold]

Hello Dan, Can I say how sorry I was that your day turned out, not so good! Yes, the weather was unfortunate and of course, not the BRSCC's fault.
There was a problem with telephones! Mine at 20 would only ring out and I know other posts, the telephones completely failed. Your nearest Post 13, was one where Roger asked me to report in on his behalf. I did circulate with a Brands Minibus at the beginning of the lunch break, and if you had stopped me, I could have advised you on the return times.
At the end of the day, again my Minibus and the Course car circulated, making signals that the day had ended, and with a curfew of sharp 1830 hours, a Red FLag at 1827 made this a foregone conclusion.
I am sure that you have read the whole of this 'thread', and you can see that there were problems with manning due to acute shortages. Please do not be put off, or else we shall be more short!!!

[Stoowert]

Fair comment, point taken Mr Gold! It just seemed those poor overworked (?) Startline marshals cut a really pathetic figure stood standing in the rain with no one to play with!

[Stoowert]

I hate to bring up old chestnuts but Dan's problems would've been solved if we had a land line at Brands! You can flag and talk to race control - in security, plus, if the flex is long enough (Average about 20 feet in US) you can deal with an incident AND keep race control up to date with developments. I'm sorry to keep harping on about LLs but they do make sense when numbers are sparce. And boy was it sparce on Saturday!

[archaic gold]

Sorry, Stoowert - an old chestnut!! However, if this type of technology was installed at Brands would it be viable to include the GP loop?
I would much prefer radios on the 'loop'. Also, to comment further on Dan's post, I do like the Silverstone system where each Observers 'hut' has a loudspeaker installed where the Control Tower can pass messages, such as "all observers, green-flag"