Mallory 13th May

[paddy]

Does anyone know what entries are looking like for Sunday at Mallory? It looks like a good line up of races, so I'm thinking of going.

[jimmer]

Barc stuff isnt it ??


Production bmw's are down abit on last year but still a grid of about 25
The rest of the grids are around 20 for the classic saloons.

If its classic ferrari thats normally about 18

[kipper]

Unfortunately BARC don't make entry lists available to the general public ahead of their meetings.

That said I would have said jimmer's estimates are pretty accurate; perhaps mid teens for the Classic Saloons and Historic Touring Cars and Classic Modified Saloons, the rest of the CTCRC stuff at around the 20+ car mark. Perhaps high teens for the Classic Clubmans.

[johnw]

Production BMW 32
Pre83 24
Pre66 21
Pre93 27
Pre 74 18
Classic Modified (ex thunder) 19
Classic Clubmans 21
Classic Ferrari 22

Get yerself there Paddy

[paddy]

I think I will, thanks everyone. Just bought a digital slr so this could be an ideal oppurtunity to try it out.

[G.Walker]

il be going, looking forward to Classic Modified saloons!!!

[ChrisA]

From a marshal, get yourself to Mallory,you'll enjoy it even if the weather doesn't look to promising. BARC grids are on the up.

[paddy]

I left just after 3 o'clock. The third race should never have been started. Cars in both of the first 2 races were aquaplaning and it was lucky that someone hadn't already had a big off. The Ferraris hit the bank very hard. I hope everyone involved is ok. I would doubt if the impact would have been so hard if the chicane wasn't there as the angle of the barriers has been altered.

[Al Weyman]

Dangerous little circuit at the best of times IMO I have seen so many come to grief there.

[Ian Sowman]

The rest of the meeting was completed pretty much without incident, although the Classic Clubmans race was cancelled. Quite decent racing, despite the weather.

[thebullet]

I didn't bother going i knew the weather was going to be bad.

Oh Al you going to combe at the end of this month?

And Ian you know the Ford Saloons that were at Pembrey they wont on channel five last week do you know when they are going to be on

[COLIN STUBBS]

Very scary! Pre93 race was probably the wettest and Iv never driven with so much standing water on a circuit.Came along the top straight running nearly blind behind a BMW and got alongside of him only to find yellows out and a Tomcat in the Esses tyre wall.Think I aqaplaned for 100 yards on the right hand side of the track with my front wheels locked and JUST got round.Big ponds on the Esses out bit and Devils Elbow as well.

[paddy]

Does anyone know how the Ferrari driver is?

[G.Walker]

Despite the terrible weather, there was some good racing. How the French Camero managed to keep it on the black stuff and win in Modified Saloons was impressive!!

Agree, hope the Ferrari driver is ok, looked a bad one .

[johnw]

Not definitive, but I did hear that the Ferrari driver had a damaged leg rather than anything worse and that the long delay was due to having to extricate him carefully whilst trying to do least (extra) damage to the car.

Dreadful conditions - the drivers' inability to see the flags lead to some uneccessary damage.
When cars were aquaplaning on the green flag lap, it perhaps might reasonably have led to a delayed start.

Greatest respect to all the drivers who provided some excellent racing

......and of course to all the marshals who spent the day in the most awful conditions, yet were waving cheerily to those leaving the circuit before the last race - or were they just waving to me? .

[paddy]

I'm glad he's ok. I still feel that conditions were not suitable. I've just looked at my photos of race 1 and all you can see on Stebbe Straight is spray. If you combine aquaplaning with nil visibility I think you've passed the point of reasonable safety.
In both of the first 2 races cars were leaving the circuit at Gerards and on Stebbe Straight because of standing water. I know the sport can be dangerous, but I think this was going too far.

[johnw]

No disagreement from me Paddy.

It is personal choice, but I have every respect for the clubman's drivers for abandoning their race.
We only do this as a hobby - and for fun.

[jimmer]

Glad i didnt make the trip up then...

[paddy]

That's the point Johnw, it should be fun. Of course there's always the chance of an accident, but in these conditions it was more of a lottery than skill or experience. I would be interested to know the thinking behind running the meeting once conditions deteriated after lunch.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by paddy

I still feel that conditions were not suitable. I've just looked at my photos of race 1 and all you can see on Stebbe Straight is spray. If you combine aquaplaning with nil visibility I think you've passed the point of reasonable safety.

Quite agree Paddy.

The Group 1 race was at, or just over, about the sensible limit I considered. I was certainly busy with the wheel on many occasions on each lap with plenty of standing water.

Pre-93's was worse as the rain intensified and I have to say that after aquaplaning on the green flag lap through Gerards, and again in the braking area for the Esses, I pulled off on the first lap.

I said to the guys that we could have won or I could have smashed the car to a million pieces, or had it done for me, and it would have been down to a roll of the dice. I can live with smashing it up through going over my limit, or a racing incident, but not a high risk/low return gamble.

The car is worth more to me than that. Better to be able to visit the rest of the calendar..

Stacy

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by johnw

It is personal choice, but I have every respect for the clubman's drivers for abandoning their race.

John, they didn't abandon their race - it was cancelled by the Stewards on grounds of safety, because of the speed differentials (fastest was 95.90 mph and the slowest was 67.88).

As for the rest of the comments I've read on here - chaps, with the greatest of respect, no-one held a gun against your head and said you MUST race. In fact, I was constantly in touch with Race Control saying that I was several cars short for a number of races due to drivers not turning up, presumably because they didn't think it was safe.

Originally Posted by johnw

We only do this as a hobby - and for fun.

So do we, John! Although I have to say it wasn't much fun for us marshals yesterday either. Mind you, the doughnuts were very nice - thanks to the Classic Car boys for showing their appreciation.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

As for the rest of the comments I've read on here - chaps, with the greatest of respect, no-one held a gun against your head and said you MUST race.

Sheila,

I'm not sure anyone suggested that there was a gun to anyones head?

That's an entirely separate argument to whether or not it's safe. I drove 750yrds and deemed it unsafe, then pulled off. I understand there were 13/14 finishers in Pre-93 from an entry of 20 odd, so I clearly wasn't alone except in my wanting to see if for myself first.

The implication that the drivers decide, on the whole, is an interesting one though. I have only in extremely rare occasions, ever heard of drivers wishing to cancel a meeting, even in the event of death, serious injury, flooding, snow etc etc. The reality is that drivers just won't do it, for reasons of variously; the overwhelming desire to score points, blind optimism, ego, etc etc.

Consequently there is a need for the organizers to make the final decision. There will be noise most certainly, but sometimes the organizers are in a better position to apply logic to the situation than the drivers - by definition motorsport isn't a 'logical' hobby most of the time so we can't be that bright.. ;-)

In the case of Mallory though, John Felix was the Clerk and I can't think of many/any others I'd have rather had clerking. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't watching things quite closely and if there was another big off maybe he would indeed have pulled the plug. I just didn't want to be the one which triggered it..

Stacy

[Sheila M]

Stacy,

My apologies. I've just re-read the thread and I've realised that the comments I was replying to came from paddy, who clearly isn't a driver

I'm glad you have such a high opinion of John Felix - he is one of the best clerks in the country and I'm sure he was watching events very closely.

I found the rest of your comments extremely interesting reading - bearing in mind the conditions, would you have considered going up to race control and asking for the meeting to be cancelled or delayed? I only ask because I have known drivers do that before now.

[Ian Sowman]

Actually, the Clubmans drivers and the Stewards decided independently - and at the same time - that their race would not go ahead.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

John, they didn't abandon their race - it was cancelled by the Stewards on grounds of safety, because of the speed differentials (fastest was 95.90 mph and the slowest was 67.88).

Just shows that you can't believe everything that you're told
[Edit Maybe you can - just seen Ian's post]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

no-one held a gun against your head and said you MUST race.

Err... no, and I don't think that there's any implication that this was so. In fact the depleted grids in the afternoon were due to many taking the decision to forego the opportunity to take to the track.
Just to avoid misunderstanding, some of the comments about the conditions are from spectators.
[Edit - just seen your post Sheila - I must learn to type faster]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

So do we, John! Although I have to say it wasn't much fun for us marshals yesterday either.

Apologies, thought that I'd made that clear in my earlier post Sheila. But just in case, thanks again to all of you guys and girls in orange (and red) and the photogs for staying out there in the apalling conditions.