Laptimes Vs Race Placing

[mctshirt]

I've noticed in a recent number of post the quoting of laptimes as an indicator of a fringe driver's outstanding abilities and reason to be given a full time seat in "The Main Game". David Besnard testing at SBR and BOC and Adam Macrow at Adelaide spring to mind.

It appears laptimes represent nothing other than a drivers ability to drive a car fast and in no way demonstrate anyone's ability at being a race car driver.

My example would be the TKR car widely touted as being the second fastest Ford (on laptimes) at Adelaide in the hands of Mr Macrow. And this is how that raw speed translated into placings against the other Fords:

Race 1
P2 James Courtney
P3 Jamie Whincup
P5 Mark Winterbottom
P8 Russell Ingall
P9 Steven Johnson
P10 Jason Bright
P11 Steven Richards
P13 Craig Lowndes
P15 Jason Bargwanna
P17 Max Wilson
P18 021 Team Kiwi Racing Adam Macrow

Race 2
P3 James Courtney
P4 Russell Ingall
P5 Jamie Whincup
P6 Steven Johnson
P8 Steven Richards
P9 Will Davison
P11 Craig Lowndes
P14 Jason Bright
P16 021 Team Kiwi Racing Adam Macrow

Not really impressive reading. A less than fit Radisich took the car from the back to finish top ten at Pukekohe across 3 races at Pukekohe and no mention of the car having quick laptimes - the difference between a good race car driver and a fast driver of a race car is my conclusion. Does Tander getting stuck behind the TKR car mean that Garth is good only when he qualifies well and is hopeless in traffic i.e. a good laptime when it matters is Tander's key to success?

I don't think anyone doubts David Besnards speed as evidenced by his laptimes but is he able to convert that speed into placings? Isn't there a lingering doubt that all that extra speed is only going to increase damage when he takes off on yet another agricultural excursion?


The time has come to say enough of this laptime nonsense and leave it at Qualifying where it actually does matter. Race placing is where it's at and the really talented drivers aren't always the fastest. Niki Lauda is credited as saying a race should be won at the slowest possible speed, (although Fangio is sometimes considered the originator of this expression) pointing out there's more to winning a race than being the fastest car out there.

[NAC]

Good point mctshirt. The other thing that we may not know is did Macrow have any special instructuions ie keep out of trouble, the car straight.

[Schrodes]

Indeed a fast driver doesn't necessarily mean they race well. I'm sure in both Besnard's and Macrow's case they are good racers but Besnard has just had enduro drives lately and Macrow has just Adelaide and enduro drives to complement his time in the Fujitsu series. Given a full time seat Macrow would be able to improve his results and I'm sure Simon Wills won't be immediately on the pace in the BOC car but race time will bring confidence and his placings should improve as the year goes on if the car is capable.

[davester]

Yep, when you're told not to bend the car, it takes a little bit of sting out of your times.

He sneaked some quick ones into the race, but to do that in earlier sessions (if he could of?) especially when he didn't have much seat time would have incurred the wrath of the team.
His gig at the time was a one-off, a bad position for all parties.

Cinderella stories rarely come true...career ending ones happen quite often (credit to Adam his career is still alive).

[NAC]

Originally Posted by Schrodes

Indeed a fast driver doesn't necessarily mean they race well. I'm sure in both Besnard's and Macrow's case they are good racers but Besnard has just had enduro drives lately and Macrow has just Adelaide and enduro drives to complement his time in the Fujitsu series. Given a full time seat Macrow would be able to improve his results and I'm sure Simon Wills won't be immediately on the pace in the BOC car but race time will bring confidence and his placings should improve as the year goes on if the car is capable.

BTW Besnard has just finished the NZV8 series, finished 4th in the championship.

http://www.nzv8s.co.nz/Results/Parker%20ENZED%20NZV8s

[Falcadore]

Lap times are a statistic, and as everyone knows, you can make statistics say anything you want.

[NAC]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Lap times are a statistic, and as everyone knows, you can make statistics say anything you want.

Very true

[redturner37]

Originally Posted by mctshirt

I've noticed in a recent number of post the quoting of laptimes as an indicator of a fringe driver's outstanding abilities and reason to be given a full time seat in "The Main Game". David Besnard testing at SBR and BOC and Adam Macrow at Adelaide spring to mind.

It appears laptimes represent nothing other than a drivers ability to drive a car fast and in no way demonstrate anyone's ability at being a race car driver.

My example would be the TKR car widely touted as being the second fastest Ford (on laptimes) at Adelaide in the hands of Mr Macrow. And this is how that raw speed translated into placings against the other Fords:

Race 1
P2 James Courtney
P3 Jamie Whincup
P5 Mark Winterbottom
P8 Russell Ingall
P9 Steven Johnson
P10 Jason Bright
P11 Steven Richards
P13 Craig Lowndes
P15 Jason Bargwanna
P17 Max Wilson
P18 021 Team Kiwi Racing Adam Macrow

Race 2
P3 James Courtney
P4 Russell Ingall
P5 Jamie Whincup
P6 Steven Johnson
P8 Steven Richards
P9 Will Davison
P11 Craig Lowndes
P14 Jason Bright
P16 021 Team Kiwi Racing Adam Macrow

Not really impressive reading. A less than fit Radisich took the car from the back to finish top ten at Pukekohe across 3 races at Pukekohe and no mention of the car having quick laptimes - the difference between a good race car driver and a fast driver of a race car is my conclusion. Does Tander getting stuck behind the TKR car mean that Garth is good only when he qualifies well and is hopeless in traffic i.e. a good laptime when it matters is Tander's key to success?

I don't think anyone doubts David Besnards speed as evidenced by his laptimes but is he able to convert that speed into placings? Isn't there a lingering doubt that all that extra speed is only going to increase damage when he takes off on yet another agricultural excursion?


The time has come to say enough of this laptime nonsense and leave it at Qualifying where it actually does matter. Race placing is where it's at and the really talented drivers aren't always the fastest. Niki Lauda is credited as saying a race should be won at the slowest possible speed, (although Fangio is sometimes considered the originator of this expression) pointing out there's more to winning a race than being the fastest car out there.

Back in the early sixties it was the great Jim Redman who was credited with the saying, Win at the slowest possible speed.

[davester]

Laptimes are a mere indicator of one factor. They are best used for comparative analysis to gain an understanding of how to become more competitive (driver, strategy, pit, setup).

It's common to see cars not dicing for top positions knock out a quick time...while the cars out front are looking after position/brakes/tyres/risk.

You also find some drivers post quicker times in the race as they settle into a groove...but they dont seem to be capable in the pressure of qualifying on limited laps.

In a race, positions and gaps are more important than lap times (though lap times become important on a changing track, say wet to dry or vise versa).