|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
4 May 2005, 06:31 (Ref:1292566) | #26 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,968
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
...not with a bayonet through your neck you couldn’t. |
4 May 2005, 08:01 (Ref:1292616) | #27 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 267
|
Regarding the strength of towing hooks/eyes, I will give a heads-up to recovery crews about the Vauxhall VX220/Opel Speedster. I have seen and heard several reports of the towing eyes failing on these. The VX isn't a very heavy car, but it seems Vauxhall/Lotus underestimated the towing forces required, as towing eyes have repeatedly bent or failed on them.
Don't know if the Elise suffers the same affliction? Hopefully this warning will save some time and grief during recoveries if you come across a VX in distress. |
||
|
4 May 2005, 08:49 (Ref:1292651) | #28 | |||
La Grande Théière
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,420
|
Quote:
However, I then had to drive the truck back to pits/paddock myself. The reason the tale of driver losing his arm sticks in my memory is that I brought a single seater back into the pits on the end of a long strop (probably becuse he'd been pulled out of a big gravel trap). As I entered the pits I was confronted by a very angry team manager/owner who tore into me for bringing a car back on a long strop. Apparently (if me memories are right after all this time), it was his driver who had the accident and (according to him) it was because of a long strop going slack and the car being towed running over it and getting the tow rope tangled up in a wheel. Truck pulls again, single seater overturned and was dragged with the resultant injury to the driver. Nobody had told me about using as short a tow rope as possible. |
|||
|
4 May 2005, 09:55 (Ref:1292692) | #29 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,038
|
Why can't recovery crews use the metal bars that are used for towing road cars? That would make the problem of towing a car back to the pits/paddock (Once recovered from the gravel of course) easier and safer.
It should be in the Blue Book or series rules that no matter what car you drive, if you are being towed back to the pits/paddock you wear a crash helmet, suitable fastened, and seat belts suitable fastened. That would end all the arguements. |
||
__________________
The Priest Catcher Honoured recipient of the BARC Browning Medal |
4 May 2005, 11:25 (Ref:1292744) | #30 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 546
|
The answer is really with the drivers. If they did not stop out on circuit for any reason and return to the paddock under their own power no more tows. SORTED
One other answer is no more tows, every thing is a full lift. Now the programs have to be changed to give longer breaks between races to cover this. The final solution is again wih the drivers that they recover themselves. Look at the good points: 1) Driver walks to paddock picks up trailer and tow car returns to race vehicle at lunch or end of day. 2) Driver pushs own car without help to paddock but must keep off track and in a place of safety when track live. Both of these would I believe stop drivers stopping on circuit for miner faults or passing the pit lane for one extra lap when they have a problem. Most circuits have space to park cars until the end of the day without returning them to the paddock or off track roads that could be used to return to the paddock. |
||
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon |
4 May 2005, 11:27 (Ref:1292746) | #31 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,011
|
If you use a very short rope it encourages the driver being towed to pay attention as he/she doesn't want to run into the back of the vehicle doing the towing.
I don't know if it's started to appear up there but down here in the colonies a lot of cars are starting to appear with nylon tow strap loops fitted instead of solid metal tow eyes. Of course these straps disappear inside the bumper of the car as soon as it gets a tap from another car so you cant get to it in a hurry (like a hot track snatch out of a gravel trap mid race). |
||
|
4 May 2005, 11:45 (Ref:1292765) | #32 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 349
|
What happens when the recovery has more than 1 car on tow. they both cant have the short rope?
and i'm sure we could all think of at least one driver we would give a short rope to (espacally on the end of a long drop) |
|
|
4 May 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1292824) | #33 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,447
|
There's also the problem of the truck with the new, slightly higher hi-ab and the bridge in the Donington pit lane. I still think that was funny.
|
||
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
4 May 2005, 17:39 (Ref:1293023) | #34 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,968
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
...not with a bayonet through your neck you couldn’t. |
4 May 2005, 17:58 (Ref:1293042) | #35 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 318
|
So what should a marshal do when asked to sit in a car to steer it while on tow? As we all know, marshals tend to be built somewhat... larger... than drivers so most seat belts won't fit. (Hell, even some of the seats are a tight fit )
I was asked to help recover a Clio to the pits for BTCC Donington. Nobody mentioned seatbelts. PJ |
||
|
4 May 2005, 20:28 (Ref:1293160) | #36 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 325
|
Quote:
We did have a full gravel trap but we were working in the knowledge that we had a very slippery track and so acted accordingly (and safely). It's a shame that the drivers apparently were not told about the track conditions and couldn't work it out for themselves. |
||
|
4 May 2005, 20:32 (Ref:1293166) | #37 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,578
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
You win some, lose some, wreck some - Dale Earnhardt |
4 May 2005, 21:05 (Ref:1293200) | #38 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,968
|
I can't say it'd happen that often as most of the time the driver stays with the car, but yeah i guess we're breaking our own rules then. Whats' the chances of a spare helmet being left on each post, just in case?
...and for your information, i'm substantially thinner than most marshals out there and even i had trouble sitting in a mini!!! |
||
__________________
...not with a bayonet through your neck you couldn’t. |
4 May 2005, 21:32 (Ref:1293218) | #39 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 923
|
Hepatic that could be taken as sizist (as we seem to have every kind of ist going)
A helmet on every post might be pushing it a bit, but see no reason why every recovery truck could not carry one. I also see no reason why track recovery vehicles should not be licensed in the same way rally recovery units are. That would at least set down a minimum level of equipment & training. |
||
|
4 May 2005, 21:33 (Ref:1293220) | #40 | |||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,038
|
Quote:
It is worth mentioning that whilst we are struggling to get enough marshals to give adequate safety cover at some meetings, it would seem silly to use a valuable souce to become the driver of a car being towed, thus leaving the marshals crew short staffed. If the driver cannot be bothered to stay with his/her car until the end of the race, then retrieval of their car should not be made easy. |
|||
__________________
The Priest Catcher Honoured recipient of the BARC Browning Medal |
4 May 2005, 21:56 (Ref:1293241) | #41 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,124
|
Well said Mr G!
|
||
__________________
27 Years In Orange |
5 May 2005, 07:18 (Ref:1293438) | #42 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,968
|
Sorry, didn't quite mean it like that. I was told at the weekend i needed "fattening up" by the other marshals on my post, hence the comment.
I found out just how thin you had to be when we had the mini roll at Donington the other month. After getting it back the right way up, we couldn't move it but wanted to get it nearer the track to allow the recovery truck to pick it up. We decided to squeeze me in to the driver's seat so i could attempt to steer it and keep the clutch down incase it'd got stuck in gear. I then discovered just how think some of the drivers actually are, as even i had trouble getting out again! |
||
__________________
...not with a bayonet through your neck you couldn’t. |
5 May 2005, 09:03 (Ref:1293498) | #43 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 126
|
Slightly off the topic of the thread...but does anyone know the rules for towing on the road. Age/Licenses needed e.t.c?
|
||
|
5 May 2005, 10:34 (Ref:1293539) | #44 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
Yes! I'll sort them out and PM you. |
|||
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon |
5 May 2005, 11:19 (Ref:1293570) | #45 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 170
|
Quote:
|
||
|
5 May 2005, 11:25 (Ref:1293575) | #46 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 68
|
Going back to the original posting. I was at the scene and assisted during the whole rollbar/tow hoop incident. The driver was very very very insistant that we tied the rope/strap around the LEFT side of the hoizontal rollcage and also loop it around the LEFT upright. The driver was instructed to where his helmet and he acknowledged rather cockily that this was mentioned during some briefing. We also passed his seatbelts to him for him to fasten. Did he? I'm not sure. The incident was amusing and embarrassing but the driver Ed Reeves (I think) Has massive experience and should review the way he behaves behind a tow vehicle. Surely there is no one to blame but himself for his actions. Why oh why when you are being towed off the racing line you want to pull out as if to overtake. Surely straight tow says it all!!!!
|
||
|
5 May 2005, 11:39 (Ref:1293589) | #47 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 126
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
6 May 2005, 07:12 (Ref:1294161) | #48 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 546
|
wi11iamm, Please contact me with an email address and I'll send you the information you require. |
||
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon |
6 May 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1294365) | #49 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,447
|
Of course, there's the Champ Car method of just wrapping it around and giving the driver the end to hold. If you get uncomfortable, let go.
If the driver is completely insistent that he knows best as has been suggested above, all the regs in the world won't help. Accident looking for somewhere to happen is the appropriate phrase, I think. |
||
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
6 May 2005, 14:36 (Ref:1294430) | #50 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,261
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
HRT/HSV Implications?? | dynamik gal | Australasian Touring Cars. | 40 | 26 Sep 2005 01:14 |
The implications of a Cosworth sale | jjspierx | ChampCar World Series | 12 | 2 Nov 2004 14:48 |
The implications of the Grand-am Rules | Geva racing | North American Racing | 2 | 6 Dec 2001 16:00 |
What do you use for towing? | Ray Bell | Road Car Forum | 38 | 8 Jul 2001 16:00 |
Sinister Implications Of Team Orders | Valve Bounce | Formula One | 17 | 6 Jun 2001 12:53 |