Brands to run own meetings?

[flagwaver]

Have just come off the MSA site & Brands Hatch racing Club are applying for recognition, contact being one R. Fearnell.
So does this mean they will be running their own meetings?
or championships?
or both?
Think we will have to watch & see.

[diz]

It was a foregone conclusion as soon as JP / MSV took over, just a matter of time.
What goes round, comes round. Been there before with OPRC, BHRC etc.
BRSCC won't be happy bunnies at the moment.

[Snapper Baz]

Having not been a member of the BHRC last time around I can't say anything about it though I seem to remember it had a supportive marshalling brigade so they must have benefitted in some way as being a member. I'm sure though that the profesionalism of the BRSCC and its members will make sure that it will stay on top and any sort of concern will be dealt with in a proper manner-Mr.Palmer needs clubs like the BRSCC and others.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

Having not been a member of the BHRC last time around I can't say anything about it though I seem to remember it had a supportive marshalling brigade so they must have benefitted in some way as being a member. I'm sure though that the profesionalism of the BRSCC and its members will make sure that it will stay on top and any sort of concern will be dealt with in a proper manner-Mr.Palmer needs clubs like the BRSCC and others.

Why, exactly?

[diz]

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

Mr.Palmer needs clubs like the BRSCC and others.

But maybe [definitely] not as often as he does now.

[HiRich]

Err, my immediate assumption a year ago, when MSV first indicated plans to organise meetings, was that the BRSCC were dead meat. I've seen nothing to change my opinion.

Certainly the Clubs have a role, and some are in a much stronger position than others:
- 750MC: A strong, niche market, relying on keeping costs low
- BARC: Involved in both circuit and event management
- Small, specialised clubs (Top Hat, HSCC, VSCC, etc.)
The BRSCC, however, could find their operation under pressure. The Club has an interest in National (professional) racing, which means there's money around. The general impression I get is that it has not been particularly well managed, losing money, high entry fees, and some dissatisfaction among members (as discussed on this forum)
If I were Jonathon Palmer, I would:
- See the potential benefits of combining circuit and event management, especially in the National arena.
- See the BRSCC as the weakest area.
- Engineer their replacement, whether by takeover, amalgamation, or just progressively making them redundant.
Conversely, if I were on the BRSCC Board, I would see this as the biggest wake-up call in decades.

[R59]

Look at it this way:

Brands Hatch Racing Club (or whatever it's called), organises the meeting.
The pick the championships that THEY want to race on their race days from the cream of the crop to provide a spectacular meeting to entertain the crowds, and thus line their pockets further.

As track owners, they would not have to pay for the circuit time, so there's more profit for them, especially if they charge stupid high entries as has been known at Brands over the years.

And what's more - maybe, just maybe, they'll promote the meeting.

If all of the circuits go down that route, the clubs that don't own their own could be on dodgy ground, as the circuits that pick the "best" and the rest don't get a look in.

By the way of the entries at Brands for this weekend, Britcar and the BARC-SE Track & Race Car series are safe (T & R was oversubscribed!!)

And perhaps, taking the lack of circuit hire fees into consideration - dreaming now! - the entry fee could be much much lower!

Rob.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by racing59

And perhaps, taking the lack of circuit hire fees into consideration - dreaming now! - the entry fee could be much much lower!

Rob.

Except we know that isn't going to happen, entry fees will keep going up all the time we are mug enough to pay.

[Snapper Baz]

Mr.Palmer is in this game to make a profit(and who wouldn't be?), he's got a circuit to run and pay for as well as all his staff and overheads etc-so don't assume that with the BHRC that all the entry fees will be a lot lower. It would great for everyone if they were obviously but don't get too carried away on false hopes. Never believe anything until its written in black and white as they say.

[Al Weyman]

Except we know that isn't going to happen, entry fees will keep going up all the time we are mug enough to pay.

But I think that they have stopped or are stopping doing just this which is why grid sizes are on the wane which has been subject of much discussion here. I for one have 3 cars, 2 I could use in numerous disiplines but to tell the truth £165 + for an entry is really making me think twice about a comeback.

[Al Weyman]

I will add to this and this is another thing that bugs me. You get for example the BARC running the meeting so you have to be a member of that, then say you want to run in a CTCRC race you then have to take a membership out there, fancy having a go in another couple of different disiplines, you have to join all the reletive clubs there as well, more membership fees. Just maybe Mr. Palmer has realised that all is not good in the club system as is and just prehaps something good may well come from this.

[Mackmot]

I cant wait until races are professionally organised by a proper Palmer run club.

[flagwaver]

Depends on what your idea is a of professionally run meeting. Do you mean a meeting where all the officials are paid or just that it is run in a professional manner?
If the former then be prapared for a very high entrance fee. If you mean the latter, than what is your problem with how meetings are run now?

[Garry Holmes]

Donington used to have the DRC - the marshals & competitors were well ooked after - some great meetings German Group 5 (a bit before my time) evening meetings (this was the late 70's) and the massive Euro f2 meetings - they had promotion parades of cars in Nottingham the Thursday before. And who was one of the people behind the DRC? ROB FERNELL.

[flagwaver]

What you have said Garry, highlights one of the problems that club racing faces, promotion. As has been said in several other threads Clubs are not allowed to promote their meetings it is the job of the circuit. So if a circuit don't want to pay for extra security, catering staff etc. why promote the meeting? Advertising in a papers is not cheap. Yes cutting out the middle man (your normal motor club BRSCC, HSCC, MGCC, 750MC etc) may make racing cheaper in the short term but what happens when the only promotors are the circuit owners?

[Rod Birley]

This is always going to be a contentious issue. The circuit owners are currently concerned with small grids and are therefore reluctant to promote something that might not be received well, even BTCC has this problem. Superbikes has a big grid, with plenty of top line riders some from abroad, and this is receiving big crowds. We all know, from other threads on this forum, the problems surrounding too many series/championships, entry fees etc.. but who is going to make the first move to make things better. The only logical way is to attract more spectators, but they must like what they see so that they come back again, or even start racing themselves. The recent BRSCC survey shows that over 70% of drivers started out as spectators.

[Stephen Green]

Isn't this exactly what the BRDC do? They own Silverstone and promote/run a great deal of the race meetings there. Why should JP/MSV be any different?

[Chris Y]

I think we need more meetings like the CSMA Classic Festival, which will be held next month at Brands. Plenty of action on and off the track, and in the skies. Well promoted and advertised, and they expect to see about 50-60k visitors over the course of the weekend, judging on numbers from the last 2 years.

Children under 16 go free, and the adult ticket is £20 on the day, or £14 in advance. You get a free ticket to another meeting if you book in advance.. Sounds like some people *do* read these threads

All this for basically a 'clubbie' meet - I think it's fantastic!

Ok, the event is heavily supported by the CSMA, and some tickets are given out for very little (or perhaps nothing), but it surely demonstrates what a well promoted club meeting can achieve. In this case, it's neither the circuit, or the club that's doing the promoting, but an external 'sponsor'. Perhaps that's the next logical step? Sponsors of club racing days promoting the meeting?

[ss_collins]

It will be intersting to see how the MN raceday in July gets on

[ss_collins]

the only promotors are the circuit owners?

A situation like stock car racing - very healthy indeed

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

Children under 16 go free, and the adult ticket is £20 on the day, or £14 in advance. You get a free ticket to another meeting if you book in advance.. Sounds like some people *do* read these threads

That would be a free ticket to the Renault Days Festival at Donington, which is all paid for by Renault anyhow. Just see the website or you local dealer for free tickets.

I'd be interested to know if the CSMA event actually makes a profit or to what extent it is subsidised by the club.

That said I do agree that it's a superb event.

[Stephen Green]

Nigel, I believe the CSMA themselves subsidise the event.

[Snapper Baz]

What we need are the return of the "Fordsport" type days (or Mini's)...loads of Fords racing (excellent at the weekend!) and anyone driving a Ford gets free entry (not sure a Peugeot sport meeting would work unfortuntely!!). The re-introduction of celeb' races that the "Billy's" (Billy Bunter-punter) would like...though not sure what manufacturer would now concider this for cost reasons. Also, with lots of free spectators-on circuit food sales etc increase tenfold so it pays one way or another. Many years ago I helped organise a Ballooon Festival (and racing) for Brands (unfortunately the wind was far to high) but the racing was great (Eurocars) and lots of spectators turned-up. Anything is possible with a bit of thought behind it.

[redshoes]

Stephen, what I meant was what are the numbers like?

I assume that the drivers' entry fees will pretty much cost of running the meeting, or at least come fairly close. Even allowing for non-paying kids 50-60K spectators is a lot of money in gate receipts to spend on all the aditional attractions and promotion. At the end of the day the CSMA probably make a loss on the event but are we talking thousands or tens of thousands?

[Chris Y]

Originally Posted by redshoes

That would be a free ticket to the Renault Days Festival at Donington, which is all paid for by Renault anyhow. Just see the website or you local dealer for free tickets.

Bit of a cop out perhaps to give away a ticket which would (technically) be free anyway, but perhaps they're banking on the 'perceived' value, rather than the 'actual' value. Joe Public doesn't necessarily know that the ticket could be obtained for free.

Interestingly though the advert does state that the ticket is "normally worth £20", although I've no idea what channels you'd have to go through to actually be charged that much

As for whether the meeting makes money or not, I've heard that the meeting is 'profitable', although I can't substantiate that, or give any figures. I wouldn't have thought they'd run the meeting at a loss for over 3 years though.