Has Skaife admitted to being a failure?

billy bigtime · 30 Nov 2005, 00:40 (Ref:1473524)

News just in that Tom Walkinshaw will take over the running of HRT in 2006.

mac · 30 Nov 2005, 01:01 (Ref:1473534)

Can't see this one lasting too long ....

TSR · 30 Nov 2005, 01:02 (Ref:1473535)

Being a Ford man, I personally think that since MS has taking over the roll as owner and driver of HRT it has hurt his driving, it was a big discision back then to make but look at it now and see how it has hurt him in the results dept (Yes l know he won BATHURST ) I am not bagging MS as he is the only HOLDEN driver I do barreck for. The only other mistake Mark made while in commend was to keep the cry baby Jeff Grench on the books.

But I think that with Pommy Tom tacking over control of HRT possiably the could turn the corner and challenge the mighty blue oval again

billy bigtime · 30 Nov 2005, 01:07 (Ref:1473539)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Can't see this one lasting too long ....

Yep, Skaife wont last to long, that's for sure.

Dazz · 30 Nov 2005, 01:07 (Ref:1473540)

I don't think you could call it a failure.

Skaife would have to be one of the hardest working drivers off the field, and he did still finish 5th this year, hardly a failure really.

I think a lot of people try to sensationalise these things when in fact they are just the ups and downs we all go through in life.

I guess if you hate the guy you call him a failure no matter what?

He's certainly faired no worse than Seton, Brock, Perkins, Larkham, Longhurst etc as an ownder driver.

Realistically these days who could be a successful owner driver in the current ultra competitive V8 series?

TSR · 30 Nov 2005, 01:18 (Ref:1473543)

Dazz, I was not calling MS a failure I was calling his results since he took the rains a failure ( not just the 05 results) And remeber I did say I barreck for MS even though he drives a red car.

Senna05 · 30 Nov 2005, 01:32 (Ref:1473548)

Well, I guess there are always going to be those out there who think being in the top 5 in the hardest fought championship around over the past 3 years will be a failur, compared to 6 Championships in 7 years. And i guess that is a fair call, based on previous results.

But he still beat 25 other full time drivers. Should all of those drivers retire as well? Let's get real. Take your blue or red or whatever goggles off, and start looking at this realistically.

Datto1600 · 30 Nov 2005, 02:46 (Ref:1473564)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy bigtime

Yep, Skaife wont last to long, that's for sure.

Why is that, Is Tom going to fire him and get some new young gun in based on the absolute shocker of a season Mark has had.

Dazz · 30 Nov 2005, 03:11 (Ref:1473574)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

Dazz, I was not calling MS a failure I was calling his results since he took the rains a failure ( not just the 05 results) And remeber I did say I barreck for MS even though he drives a red car.

I was refering to the title of the thread, not your post TSR, sorry if it looked that way.

I think Skaife will be around to annoy those who can't stand him for a few more years yet.

Realistically, if it wasn't for the drivers we don't like, the series would be much less interesting to watch I think. You always need a bad guy no matter what.

Head Rev · 30 Nov 2005, 04:48 (Ref:1473608)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna05

Well, I guess there are always going to be those out there who think being in the top 5 in the hardest fought championship around over the past 3 years will be a failur, compared to 6 Championships in 7 years. And i guess that is a fair call, based on previous results.

But he still beat 25 other full time drivers. Should all of those drivers retire as well? Let's get real. Take your blue or red or whatever goggles off, and start looking at this realistically.

Ahhh, a sensible answer for a change, although I mainly have blue eyes I do respect those who can driver and have the results on the board. The fall is always harder and more visible when you have been at the top, but it is generally easier to get back to the top again. I'm sure we haven't seen the last of MS or for that matter any other top driver. Don't forget only one can be number 'one' - the rest certainly are not failures.

billybanana · 30 Nov 2005, 05:47 (Ref:1473614)

billy your constant attacks on Skaife are becoming very boring.......ho hum....

Rowdy · 30 Nov 2005, 07:26 (Ref:1473645)

I thought MS owned the team

If so then wouldn't he still be the boss in the end. Or has Tom payed the $1 back to Skaifey to buy the team?

Dazz · 30 Nov 2005, 21:21 (Ref:1474182)

There is a difference between owning a franchise and running the team don't you think?

The two do not have to be done by the same person.

Don't a lot of the teams have a general manager who "runs" the team, but they certainly do not own it.

275 GTB-4 · 1 Dec 2005, 09:25 (Ref:1474462)

......please grow up you lot.....most of this drivel bores me to tears...but....anyway....how can anyone deny Mark (bignose) Skaife his 15 minutes of fame??

Sheesh..the guy has paid his dues....he should be thought of as a tin-top and V8 Supercar legend for what he has achieved....and is in very good company.....

why the hell can't you all just enjoy the entertainment provided by these current crop of hard working drivers...if it was easy, even some of you would be out there

**GTRMagic** · 1 Dec 2005, 11:12 (Ref:1474572)

Imagine for an instant a scenario... where a particular entity (lets call it Harry) may or may not control 6 franchise licence slots.... where the 3 players are able to use these franchise licence slots on the understanding that there is a technical services agreement in place with the a performance group for supply of equipment and/or people...

Now where this gets murky, is the 'ownership' aspect.

In the current rulebook for this class, any entity controlling a L1 or L2 franchise licence slot that can be proven in a court of law that they are insolvent (which a winding up order is more than likely going to achieve) and unable to pay their bills as and when they are due... can have these slots revoked by the TEGA entity....

Imagine perhaps that for TEGA's purposes that a pair of franchise licence slots are 'owned' by a racing driver, or a racing driver's father (lets call them the nominal owners). Say that the nominal owners in question want to exit their investment in the team, and puts the franchise licence slots up for sale.

Imagine that a piece of paper exists somewhere that says that the slots can only be put up for sale by the nominal owners if Harry agrees to the sale. Imagine that this piece of paper is technically in breach of the TEGA franchise licence slot ownership rules as on a fully diluted basis, Harry actually controls the franchise licence slots, not the nominal owners.....

Two breaches here, more than 4 franchise licence slots, and indeed the theoretical Harry manufactures motor cars, and is a signatory to some other secret squirrel TEGA documentation.

But what is the redress... if Harry wants to stop the sale happening... if they make their interest public in a court proceeding... technically the franchise licence slots could revert to TEGA, as they should have done when Holden rescued HRT from an insolvent TWR Group...

Is there another way to secure this? Imagine for a moment that Harry, being a business concerned about the financial health of the nominal owners they deal with, take a registered charge over specific assets held by the entities of the nominal owners.... so that if the franchise licence slots are ever used in ways Harry does not agree with... the recourse is to crystallise the debt incurred by the nominal owners for 'buying' the franchise licence slots, and instead swapping that value for secured assets in those businesses.

For example, Mike Stiff is the nominal owner of a pair of franchise licence slots. He has a secret agreement with Harry, not made available to TEGA, that allows the licences to be in the TEGA-defined 'control' of Mr Stiff, yet they are technically controlled by Harry. Mike Stiff owns some property, which is in the same, and other legal entities, as the entity nominated as controlling the franchise licence slots.

Imagine if Harry took a registered charge on this property, guaranteeing first call on these assets in the event of a wind up of any or all of those entities.

Say Mr Stiff decides to sell his franchise license slots, because his arrangements with Harry are difficult, and the relationship is severely strained, and does not ask Harry's permission to do so.

In the house of cards that is Harry's motorsport operation, conceptually they invoice Mr Stiff for the franchise licence slots, and the technical support at full market rates... and then apply to have that entity wound up because there are insufficient funds in those entities to find $6m....

The court is shown insolvent behaviour of the directors of the entity by Harry's inhouse counsel... TEGA assumes the 2 franchise licence slots due to the enforcement of the 'insolvency' rule... and they either keep them (and reduce the field to 32) or resell them for market price @ $3m, and make a serious profit!

As Harry is secured creditor, with the charge over specific assets in Mr Stiff's legal entities worth more than the value of the invoiced amounts, Harry is fully compensated for their debts, and come out even, if not ahead.

So it is a tangled web in Harry's racing division... the three nominal owners have their genitalia in a Harry-supplied vice, with control of their operations passing to Harry in the fullest sense of the word, while the holey TEGA rules are also satisfied....

Now this is all a fantasy environment, it couldnt happen in real life now could it?

NJDMONEY · 1 Dec 2005, 21:43 (Ref:1475108)

Ford fans have so little class it's hilarious.

Rombles1 · 1 Dec 2005, 22:11 (Ref:1475147)

Actually hes a Mitsubishi fan

Henry · 2 Dec 2005, 00:49 (Ref:1475272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Imagine for an instant a scenario...it couldnt happen in real life now could it?

So say that comes to fruition... Harry grabs Mr Stiff's assets and potentially loses 2 L1 slots to the TEGA dustbin... worth it?

**GTRMagic** · 2 Dec 2005, 06:59 (Ref:1475383)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

So say that comes to fruition... Harry grabs Mr Stiff's assets and potentially loses 2 L1 slots to the TEGA dustbin... worth it?

Financially Harry wouldnt notice the difference, they would have exchanged a debt for some cash. Quite how you wash this over with the fans, I am not so sure... but more likely than not this would play out behind closed doors, so very few factoids would leak....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Actually hes a Mitsubishi fan

Guilty as charged, although the purchase and delivery of a new chariot this week was not an awesome 380, but one of the last of the AWD Magnas... at an impossible price!

Henry · 2 Dec 2005, 10:12 (Ref:1475482)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Quite how you wash this over with the fans, I am not so sure... but more likely than not this would play out behind closed doors, so very few factoids would leak....

Somehow I don't think the fans' opinion will count for a great deal...

anyway, should this come to fruition, who misses out?

**GTRMagic** · 2 Dec 2005, 23:29 (Ref:1476049)

It depends whose relationship with Harry is in the toilet.... up until Bathurst, my money would have been on a now-retired driver's family team...

aj_308 · 3 Dec 2005, 11:32 (Ref:1476240)

ohh, I hope that team doesn't own the factory that builds harrys shells.

Henry · 4 Dec 2005, 10:15 (Ref:1476715)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

...but more likely than not this would play out behind closed doors, so very few factoids would leak....

but the most glaringly obvious part of it would surely be when the fans do a head count at the GP to see who didn't front...

**GTRMagic** · 4 Dec 2005, 19:34 (Ref:1476901)

Well it will be Adelaide next year... as first round... so the early AGP preview like past years wont be required.

Rombles1 · 5 Dec 2005, 04:33 (Ref:1477102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

It depends whose relationship with Harry is in the toilet.... up until Bathurst, my money would have been on a now-retired driver's family team...

So, since Bathurst, where is your money?

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