Tyre Regs -The debate! (split from Spa 6 Hours 2005)

one-two · 5 Dec 2005, 10:47 (Ref:1477259)

I may be mistaken, but I thought the tyre issue was the other way round - in other words, appendix K allows pretty much any road tyre of the right profile for long distance events and it's up to race organisers to insist on a narrower range of control tyre if that's what they want?

simon drabble · 5 Dec 2005, 16:53 (Ref:1477501)

As I understand it (and based on the series I have run with for last few years) it must be Dunlop M's unless its a wet race over 2 hours in which case you can run Avons

**Peter Mallett** · 5 Dec 2005, 17:05 (Ref:1477511)

Look here for tyre regs.

esper · 5 Dec 2005, 18:33 (Ref:1477576)

so where are we going now?, if traditional european values are counting? On which side are the dutch then (I am quit " Anglofyl" ). Do remember a nice Italian died in a French race in 2004 allthough its a top racing series (french f3 classic) with good driving behaviour.
Thing is that the modern tires have to be banned from classic-endurance racing. Use Avons and dunlops to get the driverskills on the frontpage again and leave Yokohamas for modern sportscars!!!! It will do good to these excelent tires as well, as we call them Yokodramas since the Spa six hours 2005.
There are good dirvers in fhr only............. the wrong tire!

one-two · 5 Dec 2005, 18:43 (Ref:1477586)

So what did we decide about the tyre regs? Do the FIA regs permit Yokies or not?

esper · 5 Dec 2005, 18:54 (Ref:1477596)

aks or better advice the organisers! My suggestion is stick doe Dunlops in the dry and Avond in wet...period

**Peter Mallett** · 5 Dec 2005, 18:54 (Ref:1477597)

Not pre 1971

esper · 5 Dec 2005, 19:06 (Ref:1477609)

you mean post 1971?

**Peter Mallett** · 5 Dec 2005, 19:35 (Ref:1477631)

The dangers of posting simaltaneously!

I meant the regs state that Dunlop L or M section should be used pre 1971. (That's my take on it anyway).

I still don't see the correlation between bad driving and tyre make though. I do see a differential and if you are any kind of racer you'll take that into account when racing. I know I do because I'm allowed to run D84's which are quite grippy in the dry. So any cars on L or M sections are given plenty of space. Those on D84's are treated "normally".

Eddy V · 5 Dec 2005, 20:54 (Ref:1477709)

That is an opinion I share Peter, tyres have nothing to do with bad driving.

The only thing I don't understand is that usually the German officials are very strict when it comes to punishing bad driving. Maybe at away events they are not there to police the driving.

esper · 5 Dec 2005, 21:31 (Ref:1477743)

I agree but realy to some extend!
A Big Healey on say Yokod's or whatsoever modern tire is awsome fast to drive untill.......It will be a "b.." to drive. Thats whats all about for some cars a modern tyre is ok for some it isn't . Generally for pr 70 cars modern tyres can be tricky. What about breaking bits of the car because of to sticky tyres the origional car was never designed for? And Dunlops and Avons give a wider range of lets say safety for the weekend racer (most of us are, hard to say for some)
If you drive formulas its quite understandable, just mention the slide trough eau rouge in a ff 1600 and than rigid cornering in a ff2000 in the same corner. not a big difference in car but the tyres make it a world of difference!

one-two · 5 Dec 2005, 22:16 (Ref:1477784)

Guys, I am a new boy so I don't want to overstep the mark, but I think you ought work out what the FIA tyre regulations are before you decide whether they have been correctly applied or not. I don't think any of the interpretations offered above is correct.

**John Turner** · 5 Dec 2005, 22:49 (Ref:1477823)

Well, I'm wondering if I should split the discussion about tyres, their regulations and applications from this into a new thread since, like fangio and Peter, I'm not convinced that there is any direct correlation between the driving standards at Spa and the tyre issue. However, I'm not a racing driver (sadly!), but we may get fresh impetus and input from others not visiting this thread if I split it. Any views?

**Peter Mallett** · 6 Dec 2005, 06:35 (Ref:1478004)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one-two

Guys, I am a new boy so I don't want to overstep the mark, but I think you ought work out what the FIA tyre regulations are before you decide whether they have been correctly applied or not. I don't think any of the interpretations offered above is correct.

No probs but I posted the link. What's your take on it?

simon drabble · 6 Dec 2005, 07:47 (Ref:1478015)

As I only race pre 66 I think I have been about as clear as I can be - if One-Two has a different take on what is permitted under Appendix K rules I would be delighted to hear it (although I do agree with the comments about the stress on the chassis if you run with Yoki's when the car was designed for Dunlops).

**John Turner** · 7 Dec 2005, 10:09 (Ref:1478796)

Now split from original thread, which is here:-

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...26#post1478026

one-two · 7 Dec 2005, 13:23 (Ref:1478918)

Okay, appendix K is not at it's clearest at this point, but my understanding is as follows. The para numbers are from next year's regs.

8.2.3 is where the presumption that period F cars should run on Dunlops comes from. 8.2.4 suggests that the regs for period G are more flexible. And both can be overridden by 8.3.8 that says that Touring, CT, GT and GTS cars can use suitable road tyres when competing in endurance races of more than 2 hours duration. Suitable road tyres are then defined in 8.4 by their diameter, which effectively means their profile, which can be lower in period G than period F.

It's all very complicated, but the conclusion I draw is that it's quite possible that the FIA regs permit some cars to run on Yokies in events like the Spa six hours. I would repeat, however, that I am no expert!

simon drabble · 7 Dec 2005, 13:27 (Ref:1478919)

In this years 6 Hour we were told that everyone in the race had to use Dunlops or Avon if it was declared a wet race, however those in the invited classes (Eau Rouge cup and the FHR) were free to use what they wanted.
Gentlemen Drivers' series all stipulate Dunlop M's whatever the conditions as do BRDC Histoirc Championship and HSCC FIA race series

one-two · 7 Dec 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1478938)

Simon, I was trying to explain the FIA regs - there seemed to be some confusion in earlier posts, including your own. You probably want to check what you have said about the regs for the other race series too! I'll leave it at that, if you don't mind.

**Peter Mallett** · 7 Dec 2005, 14:36 (Ref:1478973)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one-two

Simon, I was trying to explain the FIA regs - there seemed to be some confusion in earlier posts, including your own. You probably want to check what you have said about the regs for the other race series too! I'll leave it at that, if you don't mind.

If you go to the link I posted and look at reg 8.2.3 and 8.2.4 you'll see that cars built 1961 to 1965 MUST use Dunlop L or M section.

1966 to 1971 MAY use Dunlop L or M and post historic ranges (this I assume includes Dunlop D84) or Goodyear Bluestreak or Avon Slicks cut to CR65 pattern.

So it doesn't seem that confusing to me. You just get a wider choice post 1965.

simon drabble · 7 Dec 2005, 14:43 (Ref:1478977)

I have been consistent insofar as I have always said that pre 66 FIA cars have to run on Dunlop M or if the race is over 3 hours (might be 2) and declared wet you can run with Avons. I dont think I have said differently to that but happy for you to prove me wrong Mr 1-2 (odd name!) - I would be interested to know why you are so hung up on tyres.....

one-two · 7 Dec 2005, 14:53 (Ref:1478985)

Guys! Peter, check out the rules for races over 2 hours. Simon, get someone to check out the rules for you!

simon drabble · 7 Dec 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1478989)

Quote:

Originally Posted by one-two

Guys! Peter, check out the rules for races over 2 hours. Simon, get someone to check out the rules for you!

instead of that why dont you just tell us the point you are trying to make!
The issue is probably rather academic if a series dictates what tyres you can use (which is the case with GD and Spa 6 Hour which are the only series I am likely to race with over 2 hours unless I have a go at VdeV)

simon drabble · 7 Dec 2005, 15:44 (Ref:1478996)

I have just reread the thread to see if I have missed something - and it seems that unless 1-2 has a particular point to make its a pointless thread - everyone is in agreement that race organisers are free to dictate their choice of tyre and that they all run with Dunlops or Avon. In which case its irrelevant whether you could theoretically use yoki's or not (only talking pre 66).

**Peter Mallett** · 7 Dec 2005, 16:32 (Ref:1479016)

one-two. Can you tell me which regulation you are referring to please? I'm at a loss to see anything other than those I've referenced.

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